Panorama - 10:15 BBC1 this evening

moneyman4u

debbie42 wrote:

It doesn't actually introduce them. It makes people aware of the mechanism for taking advantage of introductory offers. Should this be completely swept under the carpet just because of these potential vulnerable people?

The forum introduces people to gambling sites.

It does not have to be swept under any carpet, if it wasnt on here there are at least three other forums I can think of with a section for gambling offers, none of which are there for people who primarily have financial problems.

cornerclose

kittie wrote:

cornerclose, it is the mention of vulnerable people that makes the gambling thread sit so uncomfortable with me

Yes, I can understand your concerns. However, this site is not only aimed at vulnerable people, it is aimed at everyone who wants to save money and exploit loopholes. Should such a useful technique be hidden from the less vulnerable majority to protect a vulnerable minority? How far do you go with the "nanny state" philosophy? It is a difficult question to answer.

debbie42

moneyman4u wrote:

It does not have to be swept under any carpet, if it wasnt on here there are at least three other forums I can think of with a section for gambling offers, none of which are there for people who primarily have financial problems.

So are you saying that there shouldn't even be mention of, or links to, such discussion sites, just on the off chance that someone may suffer as a result?

moneyman4u

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. The 'matched betting or intro offers board' has a strict - no gambling rule. That's the point, the fact the money is being made from a gambling company doesn't make it gambling - yet I think many people are confusing the concept.

I agree that you have a fundermental misunderstanding of the points being raised, nobody has said matched betting is bad or does not work.

FACT: This site has a higher level of people in debt than a site not concerned with dept, thats common sence

FACT: MSE encourages people to join gambling sites so that they can matched bet

FACT: Apart from matched betting you can also GAMBLE!! on those sites

FACT: Gambling is very addictive, especially to those looking for a quick fix to financial problems as shown on panorama.

You cant argue with FACT, my point stands that there is nothing wrong with matched betting, however its place on this forum is questionable in the least.

The final FACT is as shown earlier one person has already been a victim in just the way I describe, never touched a casino site before she came to MSE, joined a few to do some risk free offers and won money but became addicted and lost all her money. Point proved.

finnerty

There is definatly a mental block where gambling is concerned!!!

but MAtched Betting is not Gambling it is basically taking the 'nice bookies' money they give as insentives to lure unsuspecting mug punters into the world of gambling addiction... we just follow their terms and conditions and carfully turn their money into our money win or lose

As some one said on the MB threads earlier Matched betting just channels the money from the normal mug punter through to the bookies with Betfair and Me taking our cuts so the bookie is happy, i'm happy, betfair is happy, shame about the poor old mug punter....and while there are people out there willing to bet with all the risks why should we not exploit it!!!

Tim_L

moneyman4u wrote:

FACT: MSE encourages people to join gambling sites so that they can matched bet
.

No it doesn't. It explains in the appropriate forum how it can be done, then leaves people to make up their own minds about whether to do it. No-where in this site editorial will you find any recommendation or article advocating matched betting.

moneyman4u wrote:

FACT: Apart from matched betting you can also GAMBLE!! on those sites

FACT: Gambling is very addictive, especially to those looking for a quick fix to financial problems as shown on panorama.

These are not facts, but arguments. Panorama had an agenda, which was to demonstrate the "evils" of gambling. It produced a highly selective sample of people to illustrate this point. Most people who gamble do it for recreational purposes or to add interest to a sporting event. There are others who do it for a living or to supplement their income - I'm in this group. And there is a small group who have problems, but frankly anyone thinking they can gamble their way out of financial trouble will find their own way to a betting shop without looking at MSE.

Of course I've lost count of people chucking a tenner a week down the toilet on the lottery and telling me that matched is a mug's game!

moneyman4u wrote:

The final FACT is as shown earlier one person has already been a victim in just the way I describe, never touched a casino site before she came to MSE, joined a few to do some risk free offers and won money but became addicted and lost all her money. Point proved.

Now this is highly questionable. Firstly we don't recommend - in fact actively discourage - casino betting unless it can be done risk free. And this was a one time poster who turned up during a period when others had decided it was their business to tell us that gambling had no place at MSE. So I'm not at all convinced that it was a true story.

However, even if this was a genuine post, then it proves nothing (FACT). It is a sample size of one, and the actions taken by this person were not those explained on the gambling board. It is certainly NOT the experience (FACT) of anyone I know on the gambling board.

I think the experience of the gambling board is that people are far less likely to gamble having matched bet, because you do see how rarely banker bets actually win.

moneyman4u

FACT: Apart from matched betting you can also GAMBLE!! on those sites

These are not facts

lol, are you saying that the phrase "You can gamble at a bookies" is not FACT, sorry anything else you said lost its validity after I read that.

Pobby

Gambling is a growing problem worldwide.The internet makes it so much more easy to access.It destroys lives and breaks up families.It is truly very addictive.Anyone who feels that they require help please visit http://www.sfcghub.com/ and also http://www.gamblersanonymous.org.uk/.

cornerclose

moneyman4u wrote:

The final FACT is as shown earlier one person has already been a victim in just the way I describe, never touched a casino site before she came to MSE, joined a few to do some risk free offers and won money but became addicted and lost all her money. Point proved.

Of the thousands of people who use this site, one person has become addicted to gambling. This proves nothing.

I agree it is sad that one person was unable to control herself in this way, but surely the rest of the users of this site need not be penalized! Most things in life carry some sort of risk if approached in the wrong way, and it is not reasonable to restrict access to information on the grounds that a small minority may abuse it.

moneyman4u

Now this is highly questionable. Firstly we don't recommend - in fact actively discourage - casino betting unless it can be done risk free. And this was a one time poster who turned up during a period when others had decided it was their business to tell us that gambling had no place at MSE. So I'm not at all convinced that it was a true story.

However, even if this was a genuine post, then it proves nothing (FACT). It is a sample size of one, and the actions taken by this person were not those explained on the gambling board. It is certainly NOT the experience (FACT) of anyone I know on the gambling board.

I think she was a real person because it was not a new account, it had been opened months before and she had posted on risk free casino offers.

So assuming she was inFACT real, Martin can be happy that the gambling board has only led to one person spiraling in to dept through MSE introducing that person to casino offers, one person who had it not been for that forum would probably not have been on the casinos in the first place.

How many more will?