No point working - why not just go on benefits?

B_Blank

Svenena wrote: »

Some figures based on my own experience:

When I was out of work for a few months in 2009, I received a total of £10844 per year. This was housing allowance, council tax allowance and JSA. That's not a lot. It was enough to live off, but not to save up or treat myself to a holiday or anything. Most of it was the housing allowance, which covered my rent, so the disposable cash was even smaller.

When I started working in a poorly paid job (appx 13k gross), I still received partial housing allowance, bringing my annual figure up to about 16k a year. So that was more than an extra £5000 a year for working - an extra £425 a month. I'd say that's worth it, even before taking into account how depressing it was not working.

I'm now on around 24k and walk to work, so according to the OP I'm better off working anyway.

Good point, but then you have to take tax off your paid work, and you have to work in petrol if your job was about 15 miles away. And also the fact that often when you work you need other stuff (like a car that doesnt break down when you do 250 miles a week commuting alone). All this adds up.

Also that was early 2009. Inflation has been extreme since then (thanks BoE), whilst many people have not had pay rises to match inflation, those on benefits have had their payment go up with inflation.

So those figures will be more favourable to benefits people. Throw in a few kiddies and you would be far far far better off on benefits using those figures when everything is taken into account.

B_Blank

ninky wrote: »

deferred gratification. it's what seperates the winners from the losers long term.

benefits are instant gratification but you get no promotion and rely on future incumbant governments to continue with giving you the benefit. they have every chance of not doing so. you are living at the whim of party politics and the electorate.

if you work you are likely to be promoted / get a pay increase (maybe less so in recession but recessions don't last forever).

people who work are likely to be in a better position over time than people who spend their life on longterm benefits. this is fact.

taking a snapshot does not show the whole picture.

This is a good arguement I admit

stuart30

ILW wrote: »

Is that £950 after housing costs?

Its £930 ish thats after morgage is paid and council tax.

We physicaly recieve £930...which i feel is plenty too live quite a good standard of life.

quantic

Our next door neighbour is on benefits (private estate) apparently they had ran out of social housing so the council bought them a house in here when the estate was built then they rent it. Living in the same house as I do while not working, it is annoying but that said - I'm 30 years younger then them so... can't really see how they have it better then those who work, even in their special circumstances of being given a new build, they don't own the house they live in and won't ever be able to do any better.

ukcarper

stuart30 wrote: »

Its £930 ish thats after morgage is paid and council tax.

We physicaly recieve £930...which i feel is plenty too live quite a good standard of life.

If you were earning £15k you would get £512 a week pay and benefits. If your council tax was £35 and rent £200 which were the figures I used you would have about £1200 a month after paying them.

SingleSue

B_Blank wrote: »

Good point, but then you have to take tax off your paid work, and you have to work in petrol if your job was about 15 miles away. And also the fact that often when you work you need other stuff (like a car that doesnt break down when you do 250 miles a week commuting alone). All this adds up.

Again, as you used the generic term benefits....there are some on benefits who also have to do the same mileage and have the same concerns about a reliable vehicle...and that also adds up.

ILW

ukcarper wrote: »

If you were earning £15k you would get £512 a week pay and benefits. If your council tax was £35 and rent £200 which were the figures I used you would have about £1200 a month after paying them.

So if you earn 15k a year, you take home £25k after tax.:huh:
What sort of crazy system is that, I am sure it was not like that 30 years ago when i started working.

ninky_2

B_Blank wrote: »

This is a good arguement I admit

it's one that needs to be taught heavily particularly to those children most likely to see benefits as a lifestyle choice. unfortunately once the reality dawns on them through experience they are less likely to be in a position to do much about their situation. instead they get bitter and resent the "rich" who took the choice of shortterm pain for longterm gain.

children leaving school often look to those just one or two years older than them. in this case those who have bred and got council housing may indeed appear to have made a better choice than those studying or in low paid work. if instead you could fast forward them 20 years a very different picture would emerge.

The_Fox_3

B_Blank wrote: »

The following reasons make me think benefits is better than work financially:

1, High (and rising) cost of commuting to work eating into profit from going to work. Being on benefits will mean you wont have to commute to work.

2, Benefits are linked to inflation and wage growth is lagging behind inflation. Thus, you are assured more of a pay rise if you are on benefits. Another reason to just go on benefits.

3, Less stress - you dont have to get up at 6 am everyday, and then only get home at 7pm when you are on benefits. Just pop down to the job centre every so often and scribble some rubbish on an application form and you will be assured of getting a nice little income.

Seriously, why would anyone work in an average £15k a year job 15 miles from them home? It will cost them a fortune to get there and they wont get any wage increase. Whereas if you go on benefits you can just sit in your house (not waste money on petrol) and get access to a benefits system protected from inflation.

The BoE and government (labour or tory) dont care about the working man. You might as well just go on benefits and stay inflation protected. Heck, if you play your cards right and have a few kids you cant afford then you can get a big house (free) and even more free money every week to support them.

Also there is no point working hard and saving because the government will just screw you with high inflation and low IR and make sure that your savings are ground down to dust. Also, if you get old an dhave no savings the government will pay for everything you need, whereas if you have savings they will make you pay for it yourself. Saving is pointless in the UK. It is better to spend as much as you can as often as you can, and to not worry about preparing for a rainy day. When the rainy day comes other people who prepared for it will fit the bill for you so its ok.

COnclusion = unless you earn £20k+ a year then you should just give up and go on benefits. IF you earn maybe less than £30k a year but have to travel to work then you should also just quit and go on benefits, maybe even have a few kids (the more the better chance you have of rinsing the system). That is my advice on how to make it in the UK

Good luck.

Oh Dear B blank

My heart seriously goes out to you, and the many people i know like you, and there are a lot.

But here is my advice for what it is worth...

Of course you must keep working at any cost, if as i suspect you have probably been raised by your parents to equate hard work with rewards in life, and you have self respect and decency you must find the strength to carry on.

It has all gone wrong at the moment, working middle earners(and i consider myself higher than that) have been squeezed to the point of cracking.
I have seen filthy robbing ex drug addicts now pushing on the Grange estate in letchworth playing the victim and being given bigger and bigger properties as he repeatedly got his dopey bird up the duff who eventually got cleanish after we had paid for his expensive home(taxpayer), then was able to buy if for peanuts:mad:

I used to be centre left, not anymore, i don't mind a man that is struggling in life being given a coat, but when that man has a much better coat than me thats when i get p****d off.
But i still get up in the morning and hold my head up high and work, its for my own wellbeing and self worth, i want to contribute.
And there is still a big part of me that says that in the long run this is the best course of action.

Remember Labour have not been out longer than a year now, and as much as it pains me to say it the Tories are the party for the worker. I remember as a guy just starting out in life in my new career back in the early 90's(Tory government) being able to buy a lovely victorian 3 bedroomed terrace, it was'nt without a little pain, but nothing like it is today.

Your day will came mate, just stick in there, you don't sound the type of person that wants to get your partner pregnant and use the kids as emotional blackmail to get a home, stick in there.

And continue to get angry wherever you can be heard, those up top cannot do anything if they do not know there is a problem. And i don't know about you but i welcome the cuts in spending, my income can go down(and it has about 20% down from peak), inflation going up, GDP down etc etc... none of it it will bother me as i have the strength through being a hard worker. These lazy ponces and those that got lucky buying their ex council place and who are now perving in Thailand for example will have it coming.

ILW

ninky wrote: »

it's one that needs to be taught heavily particularly to those children most likely to see benefits as a lifestyle choice. unfortunately once the reality dawns on them through experience they are less likely to be in a position to do much about their situation. instead they get bitter and resent the "rich" who took the choice of shortterm pain for longterm gain.

children leaving school often look to those just one or two years older than them. in this case those who have bred and got council housing may indeed appear to have made a better choice than those studying or in low paid work. if instead you could fast forward them 20 years a very different picture would emerge.

So don't give council housing to these people, hostels with curfews would hopefully stop them having more kids and send a strong message to the ones a few years younger. If you openly reward bad behaviour it doesn't take a genius to figure out that others will follow.