Tonight with Trevor McDonald (degrees worth it?) 24/11

thom_yorke

black-saturn wrote:

Everyone on this thread is going to think I'm mad but I'm going to try and steer my daughters away from going to uni if I can :eek:

Just make sure they fully understand every option available to them. When I was in my final year of A-Levels, all the teachers and advisors that came and spoke to us gave two options, uni or a gap year before going to uni.

I don't blame them to be honest though. They were middle aged, so when they went to university degrees probably weren't as common, there was more financial help, and of course no top-up fees. Uni for them probably was worthwhile. However, times have changed, but unfortunatly the advise given to students hasn't.

fatnan

My degree helped inasmuch as I would not have been able to get the job I wanted without it. Luckily, I was a (very) mature student and was able to consider the merits of the job above the money.

Voyager2002

thom_yorke wrote:

Just make sure they fully understand every option available to them. When I was in my final year of A-Levels, all the teachers and advisors that came and spoke to us gave two options, uni or a gap year before going to uni.

I don't blame them to be honest though. They were middle aged, so when they went to university degrees probably weren't as common, there was more financial help, and of course no top-up fees. Uni for them probably was worthwhile. However, times have changed, but unfortunatly the advise given to students hasn't.

As a matter of fact, the many jobs that used to be available for people with limited education have largely disappeared. Added to which, lazy employers use education to select applicants: i.e. if you don't actually need any special knowledge to do an attractive job but there are plenty of applicants, the employer will limit the number who are seriously considered by eliminating all those without degrees, 'A' levels or whatever. To see where this process is leading, visit India, where you must have a university degree in order to get a job as a bus conductor! So the advice given by teachers is fairly sensible, so far as it goes. Sure, plenty of people who don't go to university have good careers, and good lives, but they probably have to work harder than they would have done had they taken an appropriate degree, or they have the presence of mind and luck to spot or create an unusual opportunity. No careers adviser can or teacher can give advice that relies on the exceptional.

I think that the main message from this thread is that it is absolutely vital to choose the right degree, and the right course.

GoldenEye

black-saturn wrote:

Everyone on this thread is going to think I'm mad but I'm going to try and steer my daughters away from going to uni if I can :eek:

I don't think you're mad Black-Saturn. I think the best thing to do is to complete A-levels then consider University later.

Voyager2002 makes a lot of sense. It is important that people understand what their degree will provide them at the end. I think that's the advice pre-university students should consider. Too many people are graduating in courses that are not needed for today's jobs. Most fields nowadays do not require a degree... you can work your way up using experience if you are hardworking. In the "Tonight" programme, many of the graduates were complaining but in truth there are people out there unskilled who could have done the same job.

netally

Don't 'steer' them anywhere. Let them make their own decisions and mistakes and respect them for it.

si1503

I will certainly be encouraging my kids to go to university (assuming the ability is there, which I'd hope it would be) when the time comes.

Having a degree is essential for so many top careers. People fail to realise that the worth of a degree is largely dragged down by "mickey mouse" subjects and degrees from poor institutions with very low entry requirements. These degrees will certainly provide very little benefit in entering a good career. However the right degree in the right subject will. For this reason it is vital to talk to your kids and make sure that the course they plan on studying will be worthwhile.

I got very little help/direction from my parents when going to college, as a result I took a leisure and recreation AVCE, because a friend was taking it, cost me 2 years of my youth because when I realised what a load of trash the course was I had to redo my proper A-levels in business, economics and accounts, then I was able to go into Accouting and Finance at uni, had my parents given me some direction from my GCSEs, and knowing what I liked, i would have done sciences and perhaps economics at A-level, and probably would have saved 2 years of my time. Obviously in making the mistake I learned from it and knew that my university course and place of study would be very important to the worth of my degree. The point i'm trying to make is youngsters do need some direction and help when making what is perhaps the biggest single decision of their careers. I'm not saying to tell them what to do, but they should be encouraged to do something they enjoy and be provided with enough information to make a rational decision, as I do think a lot of teens really don't know what they want, and just how important the subject(s) and place that they are studying really are.

StudentSaver_2

black-saturn wrote:

Everyone on this thread is going to think I'm mad but I'm going to try and steer my daughters away from going to uni if I can :eek:

Steer them in whichever way they are suited. If they are academic, university is maybe a better choice. If they aren't academic, maybe university wouldn't suit them.

I live with a person who was steered towards university. However, she is not university material. She's never written an essay in her life and has resorted to plagiarism. She also failed every single exam last year. A non-university route would have been ideal for her, but instead she was steered into this route and made to believe that this is the only option.

anewman

At least if things go so bad you can't get through the first year it's only one year's worth of education and fees etc wasted. There will always be a good number of people dropping out after year one for a number of reasons. I have to admit I was *very* lazy in my first year of university. I knew the marks didn't count and it was a case of get 40% to get into the next year, so work was handed in late etc etc.

TeaBoy_2

graduates earn an extra £400k over a lifetime. thats fact.

anewman

TeaBoy wrote:

graduates earn an extra £400k over a lifetime. thats fact.

I haven't managed to get any kind of job since I graduated so I'd like to start seeing some of this money.

There will be some difference. Just like I cannot claim all people are 5ft 9" because that's the average height (you are the height you are and that varys), you cannot make standard claims about all graduates. Some people will earn millions more, and others will earn a good few hundred thousand less. Unfortunately for me I feel like I am in the latter group.