Tonight with Trevor McDonald (degrees worth it?) 24/11

Limesemma

Im really confused, im in a job now where i earn nearly 16k with no degree so am thinking of going to uni in Sep. I know it will be stressful as i own a house but want to do it even though i realise when i finish i will probably end up on a job paying about the same.

The difference i hope will be that the job i do i will be interested in, im now not sure its worth putting myself and my partner through the finacial risk!

Is there any statistics done recently?

ftbworried

anewman wrote:

And I would argue that saying a degree from an ex-polytechnic is not as good as from another is elitism, like only accepting graduates from oxbridge.

It's true though. In a market that is FLOODED with graduates- employers have had to be more and more stringent about their criteria to pick out the best. Unfortunatley for some, the uni you went to IS noticed. It's a shame because at 16-17, when you choose your uni you can be niave about the effect it will have on your career. It's a factor that no careers advisor ever tells you about because people just aren't honest about it. I guess they're scared of people acusing them of being elitist!

When I was on my industrial placement year I was involved in the recruitment process of the next placement student. They refused to even send the job advert out to 'ex-polytechs'- it DOES happen. Take a look at the following job adverts if you don't believe me....

Need a degree from a redbrick uni...
http://careers.computing.co.uk/texis/jobsearch/details.html?id=448ee7a849b1a0&WT.mc_id=ukjobsnet

"Graduate from a top class university "
http://www.jobscareers24.co.uk/jobs/k-science-graduate-t-software-developer-vdbqpmzo.html

"Must have a good Bachelor’s degree (2:1 or 1st) from a good university"
http://www.graduate-jobs.com/gj/gjs/js011.jsp?jobId=12625


Just read the comments sent in by the plethora of grads from 'newer universities' sent in at the bottom of this page...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3181518.stm

It makes for grim reading- but thats why we have to stop being so PC and start being honest with our 16-17 year olds to ensure they make the best university choice for their career (if they want to go into something vocational then maybe a 'newer' university is better- but 'academic' students need to be aware of the reduced prospects).

BTW I'm not 'elitist' - I'm from a very working class background- I'm just realistic.

emma_b_4

i watched the programme and found it interesting, but it didnt tell me anything i didnt know. as some1 who worked for 5 years and then went to uni (student nurse) i did feel a bit smug watching it...........as many of my school and college mates went to uni full of bull how the ones who worked would amount to nothing compared to them with their degree....and "see ya when im loaded" kind of attitude
my mum and dad could not have supported me through uni so i went out and worked and saved, got a house, got settled then made the sacrifice to go to uni.
i know my course is slighlty difrent, im a student nurse (not guaranteed a job though so kind of similar!) but i believe i will far better for a job than some1 straight from college into uni as i have a bit of experience outside of fulltime education.

they did point out on the prog that it was a very small casestudy, so i dont think it should be taken as anything more than a programme of interest.

maybe it will discourage students from mounting up tons of debt with a mantra of "when i get my degree ill be loaded"

ps two of the ppl who i knew who said that, one got an english degree = works in bookshop as sales assistant
art degree = works in a bar

i have a friend who left school at 15 no quals, started waitressing at a hotel.. 6 yrs later she is manager

anewman

ftbworried wrote:

It makes for grim reading- but thats why we have to stop being so PC and start being honest with our 16-17 year olds to ensure they make the best university choice for their career (if they want to go into something vocational then maybe a 'newer' university is better- but 'academic' students need to be aware of the reduced prospects).

BTW I'm not 'elitist' - I'm from a very working class background- I'm just realistic.

Being realistic is good. I too am from a very working class background. I missed out on a place at The University of Leeds (which to my knowledge is a good, or possibly top class, univerity) for my undergraduate course by a matter of being one grade lower than needed in 2 subjects at A level. (The Psychology course is very popular so the required grades were ABB).

But if there is no problem with the ex-polytechnic universities, and they produce well rounded educated people, with classifications reflecting their ability and they are equal to a graduate at a "good" university: then the problem is with the employers really and it needs to be addressed as a problem with employers. Some employers are crying out for graduates or claiming graduates are of such a poor standard. You have to wonder what their recruitment procedures are.

The only problem really is the ex-polytechs will always be presumed to produce poor students, simply by virtue of them accepting students with lower A level grades. I don't think this problem is one that will ever be resolved. The oversubscribed universities will always use grades to make discriminations between student ability and as a basis of inclusion and exclusion. And those who do not meet those will be wanting to go somewhere they will be accepted.

The gap is only likely to widen with univeristies asking different fees and some being cheaper.

emma_b wrote:

i have a friend who left school at 15 no quals, started waitressing at a hotel.. 6 yrs later she is manager

I guess it just goes to show really, that it's ability in the work place that matters. My guess is she showed a real spark and ability for the job hence moved up quickly.

studentphil

You take Leeds Computing course you need ABB these days and compare that to Leeds Met where DE will get you in. The entry requirements are miles apart and so the courses just can not be even taught at the same level.

If the course that needs DE is as good at the one wanting ABB, then what is the point of working for your A levels, you might as well just get low grades!

si1503

studentphil wrote:

Writing a good English exam or an English Essay will not make you a good employer, there is no logical connection betwwen the two!

A lot of people would disagree with this.

si1503

studentphil wrote:

You take Leeds Computing course you need ABB these days and compare that to Leeds Met where DE will get you in. The entry requirements are miles apart and so the courses just can not be even taught at the same level.

If the course that needs DE is as good at the one wanting ABB, then what is the point of working for your A levels, you might as well just get low grades!

There is a HUGE difference between the prospects of redbrick graduates with high A-levels and graduates from newer universities with poor A-levels. Obviously the extent of this difference will fluctuate industy to industry and hold more relevance in law, and financial lines of work compared to certain others. Where you study is one of the big determinants in the worth of a degree, along with what subject you study in. Believe it or not your A-levels are also taken into consideration by many top firms when it comes to graduate selection. Education is still key to securing a good career, especially in finance which is the line of work I am persuing, but due to the increase in supply of graduates the employers are expecting that something extra now, you need something to stand out from the rest, but obviously you need them to take a look at you first.

lilac_lady

In future students should ask themselves "Am I ok with money or does it control me?" That's the crucial qualification now. If they go to university and run a lot of stupid debt (not necessary debt), their future will be compromised.

anewman

studentphil wrote:

You take Leeds Computing course you need ABB these days and compare that to Leeds Met where DE will get you in. The entry requirements are miles apart and so the courses just can not be even taught at the same level.

But Leeds met still has to teach employable skills. So I can't imagine Leeds met would teach the "easy" programming languages, like visual basic, and leeds the more "pro" languages like C++. I could be wrong though

colin79666

I'm writing my CV right now to apply for work placements for the next year (mid 07- mid 08)

I'm in my second year of a computing degree so hopefully I can get a work placement for my third year. This should in theory help when it comes to getting a job after I graduate.