Tonight with Trevor McDonald (degrees worth it?) 24/11

studentphil

Bamber19 wrote:

The main problem is that going to University has become the norm, and the government is constantly trying to get people to go who wouldn;t have went otherwise...but regardless of this, the number of jobs available remains the same, so you now find that jobs that you could get without a degree in the past now requires a degree. On top of this universities are creating degrees which would never have been a degree before to accomodate these extra students. Another problem is that the majority of students i know don't seem to think about the job prospects of their degree (also many lecturers lie about these) I have friends studying Philosophy, whilst it's an enjoyable degree if anyone asks them what they're going to do with their degree the answer is that they don't know, they're not going to use it to be a philosopher are they?

I do philosophy and the simple answer is that whilst it is not the most directly employed subject, you just have except your degree is a starting point to further for vocational education!

CIS

If the government's own department is blatantly disregarding the value of A-levels and degrees, what message does that give?

Its quite simply becasue some form of common sense has come through in that they would rather test peoples ability to do a job than just go on qualifications alone - many people in my dept have degrees ( I dont yet), but dont do the job any better than me.

craigkarges

I think the program did a good job in highlighting that your success is dependant on you, not a piece of paper.

I've actually had the pleasure of meeting Philip Green (the 5 billon pound man on the programme, with no qualifications) and have nothing but respect for him trying to educate people in a different manner by giving them the hands on practical experience of modern business.

Compare his education to the A-Levels I finished last year. I got great results, but the knowledge in most cases is absolutely useless to the real world. I would much rather have learnt what Mr Green's school teaches than have the A-Levels I have.

Even my dad recruits for a very successful business and his guidelines are that he should take preference with those who have relevant work experience ahead of those who have a degree, simply because while one persons been learning it for three yeras, the others been actually doing it!

They have the knowledge and practial experience while the person with qualifications has only the knowledge.

In my opinion this is the way the business environment is heading, so if I do decide to do a degree at a later date, it will definitely be part-time or distance learning so I can get practical skills and work experience at the same time, and it also helps prevent the huge debt!

andyrules

Its quite simply becasue some form of common sense has come through in that they would rather test peoples ability to do a job than just go on qualifications alone - many people in my dept have degrees ( I dont yet), but dont do the job any better than me.

I couldn't agree more, but my point is:
a) the selection tests focus largely on literacy/numeracy/problem solving skills which anyone with GCSEs/O-levels/Alevels/degree could prove without testing hundreds of applicants.
b) this gvt have pushed degrees until the market is flooded with graduates, now their own department is ignoring the value of further education! Surely the point of passing exams is to show a potential employer that you are capable of reaching a standard - after that it is down to interview.

misskool

A degree is worth it if the person who is doing think it's worth the effort and time spent towards taking it.

anewman

misskool wrote:

A degree is worth it if the person who is doing think it's worth the effort and time spent towards taking it.

Not if you don't reap any benefits, like improved job prospects, I would argue. Of course you ony find this out after spending a few years at university and paying fees and everything else.

andyrules

Originally Posted by misskool
A degree is worth it if the person who is doing think it's worth the effort and time spent towards taking it.

Personally, I would only consider it worth the effort and time (and the rest!) if it makes me a more attractive proposition in the job market. At the moment I don't believe this to be so.

I think a degree has to improve job prospects, or there is very little point. You might as well be out there competing for the jobs!

misskool

anewman wrote:

Not if you don't reap any benefits, like improved job prospects, I would argue. Of course you ony find this out after spending a few years at university and paying fees and everything else.

Your job prospects are improved, it depends on where you did your degree and what you did it in. At the risk of sounding elitist, employers see graduates from so many universities from such a variety of subjects that they have to pick and choose from what they do recognise (hence the redbrick universities and the oxbridge crowd)

What I don't agree with is your attitude, a degree is about learning. The ability to analyse something critically, a point of view lacking in many undergraduates nowadays who are just shepherded through the system.

No one forces you to go to university and take a degree, it is your choice. You should have thought about it when you applied.

andyrules wrote:

I think a degree has to improve job prospects, or there is very little point. You might as well be out there competing for the jobs!

Then you should be out there competing for the jobs, don't go to uni if you can't afford it. If you want to do a degree later, then you take some time out from your work.

m.smith14

I'm in my final year of a Law degree from a redbrick uni and I can honestly say that unless you wish to go into Law (for which becoming a solicitor is a prerequisite) I would have found it better to work with a growing level of responsibility (i.e. not just in a call centre!) and feel that this would have equipped me better than this degree has for future careers. As for knowledge of the Law it has proved invaluable and has personal worth. As for my employability, I have had one interview for a graduate entry position but just hope that my 2:1/2:2 will have made the course worthwhile. As for others I would say that once you have mastered the 3R's, if you're not particularly academic do not be pushed forward with those around you going to uni but consider the vocational opportunities available to you.

anewman

misskool wrote:

What I don't agree with is your attitude, a degree is about learning. The ability to analyse something critically, a point of view lacking in many undergraduates nowadays who are just shepherded through the system.

I did choose to go to university and I did enjoy the learning aspect, and writing essays etc etc. This is one of the reasons I have gone on to do an MSc at the moment. The other reason I went on to do an MSc is that I didn't find my degree helped me much on the job market. In fact I feel it impeded my ability to get a job, I couldn't get unqualified jobs [asda etc] and I couldn't get jobs I had a degree for.

I am sure most people who go to university will give improved earning potential and job prospects as reasons for going to university. A degree is about learning, but I think the general idea is that learning should count for something when you start filling in the job application forms; and employers should recognise what you have learned.

Will give an example of this. A friend recently got a job developing software after doing a software development degree. He tells me they ask him to do something and tell him how to do it. He, using his knowledge and experience, often has to step in and say "I think it would be better done this way", and in all but one occasion has been proven correct, but apparently the employer is not happy about him saying how he thinks it should be done, despite him having the knowledge and experience after 4 years of studying. He also feels very unhappy that he doesn't have the freedom to use his initiative which he feels is a skill he learned during his degree.

For me the MSc was more of a financial commitment than my undergraduate degree as I actually have to pay the fees and get a different type of loan (Career Development Loan) making it more critical to get a job at the end of it.

Also after doing a degree for a few years, if it doesn't help you get a job like you might have initially thought it would, you can't just rewind the tape. It'sj just your expectations don't match with the reality at the end of it. In my case it's not like I had beers every night and didn't turn up to lectures. I went to nearly all lectures, worked hard and got the highest degree classification possible.