Fine for stopping in a loading bay

MrChips

I just got a letter in the post from Enfield council with a PCN and a charge of £100 (reduced to £50 for early payment). The offence is described as "23J Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle". The date of offence is 11 March 2011.

They have included a link to a website where I can access "evidence", i.e. a series of photographs.

My memory of the event is slightly hazy but I think I was lost in Enfield town centre and I pulled over at 18:23 to the side of the road to check my map. The photos show (I think) that I never turned the engine off as the break lights are on in all of them. At 18:25 I drove off again (the times are visible in the photographs). So from my perspective I was not "parked".

I stopped in an empty bay which is marked "loading only" and has no yellow lines next to the kerb, if that makes any difference. There was room for two cars so I was not blocking another "loader".

Separately, I think I may have stopped in the same spot since to drop my wife off (again taking 2 mins max and me not leaving the car) - can I expect another ticket for that?

EDIT - it turns out the occasion I got the penalty is for when I picked up my wife, not when I was lost!

MrChips

From its own website, Enfield council seems to imply that an offence is only committed if there is no loading within 5 minutes. Their own photos show I was only stopped for two...

http://www.enfield.gov.uk/info/471/roads-street_parking-enforcement/693/parking_enforcement/3

peter_the_piper

Your best bet is pepipoo.com, more people there to tear the ticket(legally speaking) to pieces.

multiflorum

As stated on earlier posts you will get good sound advice from other websites, but just for clarity. PCN code 23 refers to the class of vehicle allowed in that parking bay and not necessarily if you were loading or not. Its normally used when the bay is signed as Goods Vehicles Only and cars and motorcycles stop there.

Parked in a loading bay without loading is PCN Code 25.

MrChips

Thanks for replies to date. My offence is indeed for "parking" in a goods vehicle only bay.

What exactly is the definition of parking? I never left the car and I don't think I even turned the engine off as I was stopping only for two minutes to let my wife into the car. Is there a subtle distinction between stopping and parking?

Near my house there is always a mobile CCTV enforcement car with a camera on the roof which sits in a pay and display parking bay with the camera fixed on a no right turn junction. Clearly it has identified it as a prime source of penalties! However as I walked past it today on the way to work I saw that a chap sits in the car all day and doesn't buy a pay and display ticket. Is this allowed? Is he "parked", or merely "stopping"? Does not the same rule apply in my case?

Tilt

You need to 'park' to drop off/pick someone up? yellow lines have an exemption for this but loading bays, bus stops with clearway restrictions, school entrance zig zag markings and pedestrian zig zag markings do not.

Sirdan

Tilt wrote: »

You need to 'park' to drop off/pick someone up? yellow lines have an exemption for this but loading bays, bus stops with clearway restrictions, school entrance zig zag markings and pedestrian zig zag markings do not.

Yes as I understand it stopping = parking, not the answer you wanted but there it is ...

Sirdan

MrChips wrote: »

Thanks for replies to date. My offence is indeed for "parking" in a goods vehicle only bay.

What exactly is the definition of parking? I never left the car and I don't think I even turned the engine off as I was stopping only for two minutes to let my wife into the car. Is there a subtle distinction between stopping and parking?

Near my house there is always a mobile CCTV enforcement car with a camera on the roof which sits in a pay and display parking bay with the camera fixed on a no right turn junction. Clearly it has identified it as a prime source of penalties! However as I walked past it today on the way to work I saw that a chap sits in the car all day and doesn't buy a pay and display ticket. Is this allowed? Is he "parked", or merely "stopping"? Does not the same rule apply in my case?

If it is a council bay and a council enforcement vehicle then of course he does not have to pay and display ..what would be the point of the council paying themselves ??? (if it is a private bay the council may have had permission from the operator not to pay/display)
Was this really a serious question ??

PS If you travel about a bit you will also see mobile speed camera vans parked on yellow lines..this is allowed too !

MrChips

Fair dos. Is the council enforcement car I mentioned also therefore committing a contravention?

EDIT - just seen Sirdan's most recent post!

But, if all the spots are taken he is preventing a paying customer from parking their car...

Sirdan

MrChips wrote: »

Fair dos. Is the council enforcement car I mentioned also therefore committing a contravention?

EDIT - just seen Sirdan's most recent post!

But, if all the spots are taken he is preventing a paying customer from parking their car...

Yes but that's a matter for the landowner be it council or private , they are allowed to not enforce any "contravention" should they choose not to .
Think about it why wouldn't they be ..it's their parking bay so it's up to them how they regulate it's use.

MrChips

OK - I have been looking on Google for 15 minutes and can't find an explicit definition of parking, waiting and stopping. Can anyone help?

Presumably no stopping means exactly that - you can't stop the car even for a moment (except presumably to check the signage to see if stopping is allowed?)

But what constitutes waiting or parking, and what is the difference between the two? Some sources (including my dictionary) say that parking involves "leaving the vehicle" in some way.

This is as much about me trying to avoid future issues, as resolving this one!