Major problem with 11,000 mile nearly 2 year old Ka UPDATE POST 71

thescouselander

To be honest I dont think the lack of service at 12 months has anything to do with the failure. Even if the car had been serviced at 12 months Ford would have most likely just wiped an oily rag over the engine and maybe pumped the tyres up - it might be worth checking if they would have actually changed the oil at the 12 month service.

Notwitshanding that - at 11,000 miles the oil should still be in reasonable condition (even at 2 years old) and I don't see why the OP should have suffered a piston ring / bore failure at such a low milage.

It is possible to get an engineers report on why the engine has failed. A quick look with an endoscope should reveal if the piston bore is scored or failing that any manufacturing defects in the piston rings could be identified if they were removed from the engine (although you're half way to fixing it by this point).

Strider590

MrsE wrote: »

My DD bought a brand new (new shape) Ford Ka nearly 2 years ago, from the local Ford dealers.

She had it serviced at just over 11,000 miles & nearly two years old (in other words very recently), not with Ford, but a local garage.

Today it started miss firing, she took it back to where she had it serviced a couple of weeks ago.

When they took the dipstick out it hissed, because of a build up of pressure in the engine.
They put it on diagnostics & found there was a miss fire on cylinder 4.
This is caused by the seal on the piston ring letting in engine oil (& so the engine is loosing oil) & the piston is taking oil up into a spark plug, the plug had to be changed because it was damaged by the oil.

This looks like being a major & expensive problem with the car.

She contacted Ford & they say because she didn't service with Ford at 12 months her warranty is void & they don't want to know.

Is this a fault with new shape Ka's?
The car has only done just over 11k miles.
Surely Ford have to put this right?

She's been told by the service garage to keep topping with oil, if she doesn't the engine will run out of oil:(

I don't know what everyone else is going on about, but it sounds to me like it was overfilled with oil..... This can do enormous damage of the type you have described!

And don't let that garage buy the car from you, they'll make a really nice profit on that.

Inactive

Strider590 wrote: »

I don't know what everyone else is going on about, but it sounds to me like it was overfilled with oil..... This can do enormous damage of the type you have described!

.

I agree with this, it seems like the garage that serviced it, overfilled it.

bigjl

thescouselander wrote: »

To be honest I dont think the lack of service at 12 months has anything to do with the failure. Even if the car had been serviced at 12 months Ford would have most likely just wiped an oily rag over the engine and maybe pumped the tyres up - it might be worth checking if they would have actually changed the oil at the 12 month service.

Notwitshanding that - at 11,000 miles the oil should still be in reasonable condition (even at 2 years old) and I don't see why the OP should have suffered a piston ring / bore failure at such a low milage.

One option might be to get a sample of the oil analysed to assess its condition (there are companies on the internet that will do this for you).

http://www.theoillab.co.uk/

It is also possible to get an engineers report on why the engine has failed. A quick look with an endoscope should reveal if the piston bore is scored or failing that any manufacturing defects in the piston rings could be identified if they were removed from the engine (although you're half way to fixing it by this point).

Personally I'd get the oil analysed and if it comes out ok I'd pressure Ford to at least offer some sort of discount on the work required.

Doesn't matter if you ask me, the spec of oil is only approved for one year or 12k, subject to harsh usage, which urban use is, which would mean an even shorter oil change interval.

The oil is obviously shagged, it should have been changed a lot sooner.

Though strider has a good point, the symptoms do fit with a car over filled with oil, that had completely skipped my mind there, as I was focussed on the lack of servicing.

Though the chances of getting anything back are next to nothing, Ford aren't interested, and the owner didn't read the fine print on her warranty.

Hope she invested the £100 she saved in not servicing the car well, it needs to have preformed well to cover the costs of the current problem.

Think about it like this, if the car had been serviced at 12months and now at 11k miles then Ford would strip the engine down to find the problem, then the other garage could be held responsible if they made a mistake with the oil level.

After thinking about what strider said she needs to be talking to the garage that serviced it, not Ford.

If the engine was fine for 23 or so months, then is knackered a week or so after the garage touches it then I think there is something there, I initially thought that the car was only serviced due to a warning light (such as the oil light) coming on or something similar, only the owner of the car knows exactly what happened.


But what we can be sure of is Ford will not be doing anything for free. No matter what kind of tests you do with the oil. The terms of the warranty where breached, see you later..............

jase1

That would make more sense.

I remember seeing a documentary many years ago where Nissan were explaining that they ran their test engines for the equivalent of 150,000 miles without an oil change, to see where failures occur. Other manufacturers will be doing the same thing I'm sure.

The idea that an engine from one of the world's most pre-eminent manufacturers should fail of its own accord after only two years and one missed service is ridiculous. As I've already said I have personal experience of an engine that put up with four times that level of abuse and still managed to run well for a long time afterwards.

Flyboy152

bigjl wrote: »

If it is a durateq then is that a completely new design or is it based on an older Ford engine such as the old Fiesta engines like the 1.25 or similar?

The 1.3 8v OHC Durateq replaced the old Endura-E engine, used in the KA since it's inception in the mid-nineteen nineties, about eight years ago.

bigjl

Flyboy152 wrote: »

The 1.3 8v OHC Durateq replaced the old Endura-E engine, used in the KA since it's inception in the mid-nineteen nineties, about eight years ago.

So, a fairly old desiogn then.

Would certainly explain the relatively modest service intervals.

thescouselander

bigjl wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you ask me, the spec of oil is only approved for one year or 12k, subject to harsh usage, which urban use is, which would mean an even shorter oil change interval.

The oil is obviously shagged, it should have been changed a lot sooner.

I had removed that bit because I only noticed later that the original oil is probably not available as it had been changed. But in any case you can tell a lot from an oil analysis. If the oil was still available and was tested to be within spec then it should not have been responsible for the fault. You cant do forensic engineering based on generalisations as to how long the oil should have lasted - a proper analysis is best.

It does sound like the oil was over filled during the service though.

Flyboy152

thescouselander wrote: »

To be honest I dont think the lack of service at 12 months has anything to do with the failure. Even if the car had been serviced at 12 months Ford would have most likely just wiped an oily rag over the engine and maybe pumped the tyres up - it might be worth checking if they would have actually changed the oil at the 12 month service.

Notwitshanding that - at 11,000 miles the oil should still be in reasonable condition (even at 2 years old) and I don't see why the OP should have suffered a piston ring / bore failure at such a low milage.

It is possible to get an engineers report on why the engine has failed. A quick look with an endoscope should reveal if the piston bore is scored or failing that any manufacturing defects in the piston rings could be identified if they were removed from the engine (although you're half way to fixing it by this point).

However, if the service identified any potential problems, like excessive oil burn, or an oil leak, this could have been resolved much cheaper than a complete engine rebuild or replacement. Hence the reason why the manufacturer insists on keeping t the schedule and denying any claims on that basis. That said, contrary to popular belief, the warranty could still be valid on non-mileage critical parts.

bigjl

jase1 wrote: »

That would make more sense.

I remember seeing a documentary many years ago where Nissan were explaining that they ran their test engines for the equivalent of 150,000 miles without an oil change, to see where failures occur. Other manufacturers will be doing the same thing I'm sure.

The idea that an engine from one of the world's most pre-eminent manufacturers should fail of its own accord after only two years and one missed service is ridiculous. As I've already said I have personal experience of an engine that put up with four times that level of abuse and still managed to run well for a long time afterwards.

But they only warranty them if they are looked after as per the schedule on the warranty book.

If the OP's friend had serviced it as per the warrany then the car would be getting fixed for free.

Anybody that invalidates their warranty is on their own, why should a new car that I buy be more expensive so that the manufacturer can put money to one side to pay for the repairs needed for those careless owners that are unable to follow a simple servicing schedule.

Nope, sod them, they are on their own.

It is an unfortunate postion for anybody to find themselves, but self inflicted.

Or do you think we should pay extra so that those that don't insure their cars can be covered when the worst happens so that they can have their car fixed for free.

Warranty invalid, next case please.