help needed - traveling to us with criminal record

duckmaster

kazprincess wrote: »

It would have been their words against ours. We have been out drinking, they were 'splitting up a flight'. We wouldnt have a leg to stand on as who would believe us against 6 bouncers!

What a load of absolute rubbish. "Their word against yours" is not evidence in court. Any half decent solicitor would have presented both your criminal record and the bouncers records to the judge who would then have decided who is more credible (that's why judges are called judges!).

If any of the bouncers had a record (including a police record) then suddenly its not You vs Bouncers but You vs Criminals. THEN who will the judge believe??


It sounds to me like either:

1) You don't know anything whatsoever about the law so you should probably just call the US embassy direct and ask them this question or
2) You and your boyfriend kicked the living daylights out of a bouncer, got convicted for it and are now lying about it in an attempt to prove your eligibility for a US visa.


So, er, good luck?

Incapuppy

What is done is done. Apply for a visa and go for your interview then you can relax and go on holiday without the huge worry of 'what if they turn us back?'

adouglasmhor

kazprincess wrote: »

Have you travelled to the US?

Yes but I did not need a Visa as I was in the forces at the time both on attachment to their forces and working in our Embassy.

kazprincess

dzug1 wrote: »

The advice of the US Embassy in London is to apply for a visa anyway - but that's because they know the UK public have in the main never heard of moral turpitude and if they have wouldn't have a clue what it is. So the Embassy prefer that they take the decision, not the applicant.

I would agree that yours is not moral turpitude (opinion, not fact) and that you are entitled to rely on the form (fact)

That is my thinking excatly! But it doesnt stop you from worrying a great deal before you travel! I really think both the UK and US need to be more clearly on the whole Visa situation.
If the US mean for 'all arresets' to be looked at, then they need to be clearer on their waiver form as they do not say this. Then if the UK only say have an interview so they can dertmine whether or not your crime invoves 'moral turpitude' then they should say this on their website. It would have saved people alot of time and money if you clearly know that your crime isnt a problem. I have heard of people paying the money for interviews and visa for drink driving charges!! I honestly think its a money making scheme.

Does anybody know or have ever heard of people being turned away for any small crime which clearly doesnt involve moral turpidtue?

dzug1

duckmaster wrote: »

1) You don't know anything whatsoever about the law so you should probably just call the US embassy direct and ask them this question
?

Don't bother - the US Embassy will NOT give advice on the phone. The only way they will rule on it is through a visa application.

kazprincess

Incapuppy wrote: »

What is done is done. Apply for a visa and go for your interview then you can relax and go on holiday without the huge worry of 'what if they turn us back?'

I do hear what you are saying and i have thought of doing this. But then i makes me angry as i truly believe its just a money making scheme. Its not a cheap route to go down and it can open up a whole lot of worms for something i do not think i need. If i needed this visa - why doesnt it state the fact on the waiver visa form?

Incapuppy

kazprincess wrote: »

I do hear what you are saying and i have thought of doing this. But then i makes me angry as i truly believe its just a money making scheme. Its not a cheap route to go down and it can open up a whole lot of worms for something i do not think i need. If i needed this visa - why doesnt it state the fact on the waiver visa form?

I have no answer for you other than to tell you I have lost count of the number of threads on here that I have read where the interpretation of 'moral turpitude' is discussed and no-one ever seems to agree.

If you are prepared to take your chances (however confident you feel) with immigration when you arrive then go for it, otherwise bite the bullet, pay for a visa and then you can relax. It might not seem 'right' or 'fair' to you but many things in life aren't.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I was that convinced of my innocence at the time then I would have fought tooth and nail to clear my name of any assault charge; however, as I said before, what's done is done and you need to be prepared to either take a risk (however small) or cover all bases before you travel.

Incapuppy

kazprincess wrote: »

I know people like you will though.
I just need advice on obtaining a visa and what peoples views are regarding this subject. I honestly do not think i need one. I just want to know if anybody agrees and if anybody has been in my shoes and what they did.

But surely its irrelevant what anyone else's experience is? They are not you and do not have your criminal record.

If someone said 'oh yes I got arrested and convicted for assault, didn't mention it, used the VWP and no-one said a dicky bird or stopped me' would you then use that information to make your decision?

Its ESTA you require these days rather than Visa Waiver and I believe ESTA is also now chargeable.

kazprincess

Incapuppy wrote: »

I have no answer for you other than to tell you I have lost count of the number of threads on here that I have read where the interpretation of 'moral turpitude' is discussed and no-one ever seems to agree.

If you are prepared to take your chances (however confident you feel) with immigration when you arrive then go for it, otherwise bite the bullet, pay for a visa and then you can relax. It might not seem 'right' or 'fair' to you but many things in life aren't.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I was that convinced of my innocence at the time then I would have fought tooth and nail to clear my name of any assault charge; however, as I said before, what's done is done and you need to be prepared to either take a risk (however small) or cover all bases before you travel.

Many thanks for your comments. Yes you are right in what you say, i supose it is up to us and i completely hear what you are saying. Just out of interest, have you ever heard of anybody being turned away at the border for little crimes like ours?

Yes regarding our crime - looking back now i think we should have battled it. But what is done is done. For two people who have never been in trouble with the police before, it was a very hard, upsetting time for us both and i think at the time we just wanted it to go away as quickly as possible. It was a horrible situation to be in and i wouldnt wish it on anybody. I look back and think if we didnt put ourselves in that situation, things might have been a whole lot better / or a whole lot worse if something did actually happen to my boyfriend. I dont know if i did the right or wrong thing?? But i did it. No going back.
We have learnt our lesson as we are never going to get involved in splitting up a fight again. What isnt our business - we are staying well away. Regardless of who it is.

kazprincess

Incapuppy wrote: »

But surely its irrelevant what anyone else's experience is? They are not you and do not have your criminal record.

If someone said 'oh yes I got arrested and convicted for assault, didn't mention it, used the VWP and no-one said a dicky bird or stopped me' would you then use that information to make your decision?

Its ESTA you require these days rather than Visa Waiver and I believe ESTA is also now chargeable.

Yes your right, but if somebody was in a simular boat to myself, i am just intersted whether or not they went down the interview route. I believe i do not need an interview, as the ESTA form doesnt say have you ever been arrested ever. I would not be lying so i think i can just apply for the ESTA form no worries.
But then again if people have been turned away at the border for a crime simular to mine - then my thinking is defintely wrong!! And if this is the case - then i think the ESTA forms need to be more clear as it could ruin a persons holiday.
This is why i am asking for peoples advice who has travelled to the USA with criminal records.