Failed Medical Stats.

Oldernotwiser

cit_k wrote: »

But the fit note has two parts one for can work in their current occupation if changes are made and another part that simply states unfit for work.

not unfit for their current job unfit to work - must refrain from working...

Fit notes are a very recent change; most of us have been discussing traditional sick notes. I expect many doctors haven't got used to the changes either.

Hastobe_Katt

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Why do you say it's a "theoretical" capability of doing another job? If a carer had to give up work because of a minor back injury (just as an example) there would be many other jobs s/he could do where lifting wasn't an issue.

Because that's what it is - if the individual has no current job / employer and has no training, qualifications or any practical experience for another job then it's all theoretical isn't it??

cit_k

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Fit notes are a very recent change; most of us have been discussing traditional sick notes. I expect many doctors haven't got used to the changes either.

True, but sick notes are obsolete now, only fit notes can be issued and that has been the case for a while now.

Oldernotwiser

Hastobe_Katt wrote: »

Because that's what it is - if the individual has no current job / employer and has no training, qualifications or any practical experience for another job then it's all theoretical isn't it??

Not at all. You can't just claim disability benefits because it's hard to get a job!

NASA_2

viktory wrote: »

Interesting to note that 36% don't even complete their application.

Not that interesting really.

A lot of people, especially the self-employed, claim ESA as a very short term measure. Quite a few actually claim after they have gone back to work. Which is fine so long as they have medical evidence for the period they were off work sick or injured.

cit_k wrote: »

But the fit note has two parts one for can work in their current occupation if changes are made and another part that simply states unfit for work.

not unfit for their current job unfit to work - must refrain from working...

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Fit notes are a very recent change; most of us have been discussing traditional sick notes. I expect many doctors haven't got used to the changes either.

I dont think doctors have really taken the change to heart.

I've yet to see a sick note where the doctor has used the new box and I have seen a few hundred by now.

cit_k

skcollob wrote: »

Does ATOS allow the assessor to print off a copy for the claimant?
I have had a look at the ATOS handbook and I can't find any section that stipulates that the claimant is to be given a copy if requested.

Why would it be unethical and against NWC guidance for say a nurse to hand over a copy of a report which is an opinion not a statement of fact that is clearly an internal document between employer and employee? The claimant is never asked nor is required to confirm that the report is acceptable to them - it has nothing to do with the claimant.

If that was done, I could forsee a whole day being taken up with arguments about the content of that report.

ATOS guidance cannot over-rule the guidance from the professional body that they are registered to - that over-rides everything.

For a nurse you have to get it direct from the NMWC, for a doctor, its also confirmable that way, but even better its published online...

34 If you are asked to provide information to third
parties, such as a patient’s insurer or employer or
a government department or an agency assessing
a claimant’s entitlement to benefits, either
following an examination or from existing records,
you should:


skip loads of interesting stuff and go to part in question

(c) only disclose factual information you can
substantiate, presented in an unbiased manner,
relevant to the request; so you should not
usually disclose the whole record, although it
may be relevant to some benefits paid by
government departments and to other assessments
of patients’ entitlement to pensions or other healthrelated
benefits, and
(d) offer to show your patient, or give them a copy
of, any report you write about them for
employment or insurance purposes before it is
sent, unless:
(i) they have already indicated they do not wish
to see it
(ii) disclosure would be likely to cause serious
harm to the patient or anyone else
(iii) disclosure would be likely to reveal
information about another person who does
not consent.1

source



I have confirmed with the GMC this would apply to an atos assessment, and also asked the NMWC if they expect the same, and they confirmed they do.

Never happens, atos will not allow it, thefore all assessors are acting outside of professional ethics - every last one of them.

Hastobe_Katt

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Not at all. You can't just claim disability benefits because it's hard to get a job!

That wasn't what I said. Please don't deliberately infer meaning that wasn't there.

kev5176

i have recurrent depressive disorder - it comes under the bipolar umbrella i believe - been diagnosed 5 years now, was able to stay in work for around 2.5 years of this time - the rest on sick and gardening leave whilst my work position was discussed - i am a care assistant by trade and had been for nearly years - i suppose you cannot have carers being cared for in the workplace can you !!

i went for my medical and failed - 0 points for incorrectly filled out form 0 points on assessment, even though i had sent reports from doctors, former employers occupational health advisers etc. you need a PHD in quantum !!!!!!!! to fill it in - if u lie you will be found out if u lie you wont get points - no win situation unless i suspect you have less than 6 months to live and it can be proved !!

i got this report, and all my housing benefits stopped letters at the same tiime....dated 23rd march they get to me 30th march - 7 days later.....

i went to welfare rights and they looked at it and said appeal, i have another meeting with them next week, my shrinks on call duty officer was briiliant also and said appeal, your entitled to it,you cant work !! as my esteemed poster says earlier im all for weening out skivers but the atos medical needs to be more relaxed - i totally agree with you

i had a "nurse" whom i suspect had no mental health training etc..... i dont lie about the depression/anxiety etc never have....days are good days are bad....no referral to my health professionals or former employer etc for their opinions i suspect. THIS THEY MUST DO TO GET TOTAL PICTURE OF THE PERSON !!

I was told i would be better off on benefits by employer - a local government social services manager - i have been under even more stress since leaving work than i was at work !!

i will get my esa - im determined to get what i am entitled to

Two4Tuesday

cit_k wrote: »

(d) offer to show your patient, or give them a copy
of, any report you write about them for
employment or insurance purposes before it is
sent...

Interesting post, but I suspect that ATOS would claim that their medical reports are not for employment or insurance purposes. They may argue that employment purposes cover only reports done on behalf of an employer or covering an existing employment.

Whether or not this is accurate may have to be tested in court one day.

stazi

Both cit_k and skcollob make interesting points- but both miss the point-
1) The WCA report belongs to DWP- not ATOS, therefore ATOS have no right to give the benefit claimant a copy;
2) The benefit claimant is not the patient of the ATOS HCP;
3) DWP is not a ‘third party’, the WCA report belongs to DWP;
4) A copy of the WCA report is freely available to the benefit claimant from the owner – DWP.
5) The WCA report is for ESA, and not for employment or insurance purposes.