Plastic bags still required at airports?

nobodyspecial

Inactive wrote: »

Well thanks for the explanation, I am still not convinced that using bags makes a scrap of difference to the security of an aircraft.

You mean to say you can't see how a mascara on it's own is highly dangerous, but a mascara in a clear plastic bag is neutralised? :rotfl: That was the only liquid I took through last month and I was severely reprimanded for not having put it in a bag before I got to the airport

dmg24

nobodyspecial wrote: »

You mean to say you can't see how a mascara on it's own is highly dangerous, but a mascara in a clear plastic bag is neutralised? :rotfl: That was the only liquid I took through last month and I was severely reprimanded for not having put it in a bag before I got to the airport

Why should they make an exception for you? If everyone decided to ignore the rules, whatever their purpose, there would be chaos.

Doshwaster

dmg24 wrote: »

Why should they make an exception for you? If everyone decided to ignore the rules, whatever their purpose, there would be chaos.

Indeed. The purpose of the plastic bag is to
1) Limit the amount of liquids to the size of the bag
2) Keep all of the liquids in one place
3) Treat everyone the same
4) Make the process as quick as possible

It doesn't make the liquids themselves safer, it makes them easier to check. If there were lots of exceptions for different people then the whole security check would just take longer. Even if you just have one item, put it in a bag, smile and it will all be over quickly. Don't follow the rules (however silly) and make a fuss then you slow things down for everyone.

moneypooh

nobodyspecial wrote: »

You mean to say you can't see how a mascara on it's own is highly dangerous, but a mascara in a clear plastic bag is neutralised? :rotfl: That was the only liquid I took through last month and I was severely reprimanded for not having put it in a bag before I got to the airport

Looking at the comments to this post, some people can't see a touch of humour sometimes...

My OH accidentally took a small penknife through security last year (left in a side pocket of his rucksack from an earlier picnic) and it wasn't picked out..... however it was spotted when on his keyring when we went to see a tv recording at the BBC

jamesbrownontheroad

davetrousers wrote: »

They hand them out for free at the airport don't they?

spiro wrote: »

Not anymore, some charge £1 each.

Some charge, some don't. Belfast City Airport have very good bags available for free, if you're ever traveling out of NI.

Inactive wrote: »

Anybody know what purpose they serve?

( other than the airport making a few quid ).

The 2008/9 (?) bomb scare came from an MI5 investigation into a UK-based terrorist cell. Their plan was to drill very small holes in the base of 1.5L and 1L bottles of soda / coke and replace the liquid inside with an explosive fluid that was coloured and scented to look and smell like a soft drink. Drilling the small hole in the base to empty the coke and replace it with an explosive fluid would leave the visible seal on the cap unbroken.

The hand luggage limits on liquid volumes means that even a group of passengers traveling together would not be able to get enough explosive fluids onto a plane. They demand a sealable plastic bag to speed things up at security. Rather than tipping all your bottles out into the trays, and then scooping them back up at the other end of the scanner, having them in an easily verifiable sealed bag means less unpacking and packing at the security check.

sadie22

yes and at alot of them you pay a £1 for a couple of bags

Inactive

jamesbrownontheroad wrote: »

Some charge, some don't. Belfast City Airport have very good bags available for free, if you're ever traveling out of NI.



The 2008/9 (?) bomb scare came from an MI5 investigation into a UK-based terrorist cell. Their plan was to drill very small holes in the base of 1.5L and 1L bottles of soda / coke and replace the liquid inside with an explosive fluid that was coloured and scented to look and smell like a soft drink. Drilling the small hole in the base to empty the coke and replace it with an explosive fluid would leave the visible seal on the cap unbroken.

The hand luggage limits on liquid volumes means that even a group of passengers traveling together would not be able to get enough explosive fluids onto a plane. They demand a sealable plastic bag to speed things up at security. Rather than tipping all your bottles out into the trays, and then scooping them back up at the other end of the scanner, having them in an easily verifiable sealed bag means less unpacking and packing at the security check.

So it is just to save time then, nothing related to actual aircraft security.

Doshwaster

Inactive wrote: »

So it is just to save time then, nothing related to actual aircraft security.

Pretty much, but if it saves a minute per passenger then that's a lot of time saved at each airport each day.

It's amazing how much more quickly the security line goes when there are a lot of business and frequent fliers who know the drill compared to when there it is full of package holiday families who may only fly once a year.

peterbaker

I use Stansted quite regularly.

They too used to offer free bags of the correct size and type.

Stansted is one of the largest entry and exit points in the UK and I believe that a large proportion of the traffic is not regular traffic but infrequent but large volume "one-off" London tourist traffic.

I watch security whilst I am waiting. So do people who are deliberately circumventing them.

Most of the security operatives are "not security-aware". They are rules enforcers only and only when they spot something based on the incomplete training they have mostly obviously received.

They are easily distracted by conversations especially with the majority of confused non-English speakers who don't know from one trip to the next if their belt, watch and boots are supposed to be on or off. There are also no controls on people who are brazen enough to short circuit the queues claiming they are late or that they have been back out to get a plastic bag or whatever. This means that during peak periods security rarely spot or challenge people who hover between scanner queues and for example choose their moment to place two plastic bagsful of liquids amongst the trays of people not in their group. No one seems to be counting how many plastic bags you put in the trays unless the landside security checker ("remove your boots please - have you any liquids/mobile phones/laptop?" is actually right there in front of you and watching you do it rather than somewhere else along the L shaped fifteen feet of rollers trying to make themselves understood to another passenger.

This probably means that a group could deliberately distract the operative landside of the scanner and thereby get through a larger quantity of liquids.

Large bottles can of course be purchased once airside where an army of retail and other workers have access anyway, and unlike some European airports no further scanning is done before you get on the plane. Or you can of course take through a large empty bottle from landside and fill it with whatever you like when you have been through security. Or ten of you could take your 1 litre through in 100ml bottles and give it all to one when airside and then nine could deliberately miss their flights and exit the airport landside again!

I really do think at an airport like Stansted, the bottle nonsense is simply an annoying waste of time and effort which simply inflates airside retail purchase figures and the egos of some of the security staff who seem to like nothing better than forcing you to abandon your umbrella on a rainy day.

Last time I was there I saw a non-English speaking retired couple in front of me get as far as the scanner and having had their stuff scanned were just being told on the other side that they'd got two choices for their loose bottles:
1) They could abandon the bottles
2) They could take all their stuff and go back into the terminal and purchase the right plastic bag.

The security person was just squaring up and puffing out her chest ready to say it again but louder when I gave the couple a spare from my bag.

Sorted.

Why can't Stansted security keep their own stock of bags and just use their discretion a bit more rather than waste time "educating" people who probably won't be coming through again? Then they might have time to spot people deliberately fooling them.

On another recently flight we were scanned into the European country on arrival. Most unusual. I saw a passenger in front of me clock what was happening as he looked round the corner and then move back past me, but then he clearly decided to brazen it out ... there were two guards scanning from the same belt with scanning machines about three metres apart. They were not controlling the queue and allowed a certain amount of milling around when people picked up their bags after scanning. The guy who clearly did not want to have his bags scanned chose his moment and slipped through in one such melee without having his scanned.

Whether he had anything to hide, and whether despite the uniquness of the scanning that day, they were actually doing it on a random sample of passengers, who knows, but our friend was soon out and into a taxi and gone. I do think it is relatively easy to fool first level security peeps with a high degree of success just by appearing "grey" and confident.

So I say most of this is pure lip service and propaganda. It is not real security.

If it were, I wouldn't mind so much.

Sure you could scale up your thoughts of how much uncontrolled liquid could get on the aircraft if we went back to the old rules, but when, further through the process you might regularly see major airline dispatchers and cabin crews not being absolutely sure despite several counts, whether they have for example 172 passengers + 1 infant and 3 musical instruments onboard or 174 passengers plus one musical instrument and two infants then another dispatcher (more confident and native English speaker) comes along and just says it is the number that apparently the captain needs to hear, you do worry that down at lowest common denominator level it has all been a bit of a muddle by the time the doors close ... and maybe there's a 25kg pushchair in the hold with no corresponding passenger in the cabin ... just one or two perhaps with a baby who were milling about on the tarmac for a bit but now seem to be back in the terminal or now boarding the flight on the next stand.
So whats in the pushchair??? Whose is it?

Too far fetched for most people's imaginations ... ?

geriann

when i went through Heathrow airport in October 2010 they were giving out the little bags for free.