Are people like me middle class?

lizzie_dripping

In the class stakes, I'm hoping that my 4 Coldplay albums make up for my mother living in a council house.

Eskimo12345

Loanranger wrote: »

Eskimo, if you need to brag on this forum about your recently acquired stuff then that's another indicator of being working class.

I didn't intend for my post to seem like I was bragging. There are many, many people on here with countless thousands more than me, so intentional bragging by anyone in my position would be a little silly to say the least.

As I previously stated, my post was intended to illustrate my lifestyle and financial situation in order that people had what I believed was the necessary information to determine what class I was - which, during the course of this thread, I have realised that nowadays it is such a grey area that any definition of class is so vaugue it seems a rather irrelevant concept in todays society.

moggylover

the_flying_pig wrote: »

People are floundering a little bit with this question because there’s been no agreement over a definition of ‘MC’.


I quite like the word as it’s used in the US, as in to refer to people with incomes that are fairly close to [but quite often slightly above] the median… so maybe in the
UK that might be something like a salary in the mid twenties to mid thirties of thousands of pounds per year.


I very much dislike it as it’s used in the UK, with very vague connotations of a very different word such as ‘bourgeois’…


One word will often be a bit vague anyway. Each of the following tells you really quite a lot about someone:


(1) Secondary education, especially whether it was state or private;


(2) Higher education – did they have any? Of what type?


(3) How much money do they earn?


(4) What’s the value of the assets that they own?


(5) See question (3) but for their parents;


(6) See question (4) but for their parents;


(7) You could arguably repeat the above even for grandparents;


(8) Probably something about their tastes & behaviour;



One word can’t possibly tell you anything very meaningful about most people.


For me, if I were to use the word ‘middle class’ with its traditional UK connotations, higher education and income would be the two most important determinants of whether someone was middle class or not:

(i) I’d tend to view anyone who’d been to a fairly good university as ‘middle class’ unless they had a very low paid job; and

(ii) For someone who been to university at all to qualify as being middle class I’d tend to set the bar pretty high [what follows has a fairly ‘young’ bias – people born much more than 40-odd years ago tended to go to university far less, changing the picture quite a bit] … Certainly, for example, a completely uneducated tradesman who earned a packet through doing that wouldn’t qualify … I’d probably expect both of the following two conditions to be satisfied:

(a) high household income – probably close to double the national average or more; and

(b) capable of reading, writing, and speaking very well (e.g. to A level standard).

Quite honestly, the way it is used in America is absolutely nonsensical as it refers mostly to income and bears no relation to anything to do with taste, ethics, morals, education, etc., so I would much prefer to use the English version if it really "needs" to be used.

As to the rest of your post, I know people with little income who are most definitely "middle class" and plenty with middle to big incomes who are most definitely NOT (indeed, some of them would give the worst chavs a very good run for their money:D). Your way of assessing it would almost make Wayne Rooney upper middle class !!!!!!:eek::eek:

If one really must talk about class then basing that around net worth is definitely the nastiest way (imo) of judging it, and would be pretty meaningless.

Many of the best educated people I know also have fairly poor incomes, some in academia, some in research, some having chosen to go into caring professions. They all fit the "middle class" label rather better than someone with a lot of money but few standards and even less taste:D

moggylover

Eskimo12345 wrote: »

There seem to be a lot of posts questioning the way I spend my money. I know people who spend a grand to go on holiday every year - I choose not to and spend it on other things instead. A number of people suggest I should buy less toys and save more. I have thought about this many times and it does make sense. However, I work very hard for a living and I like to enjoy my money and spend it in ways that make me happy. I make sacrifices in other areas - I rarely go to the pub or go out to dinner and I make sandwiches for work every day. A quick calculation based on lunch at £4 and two trips to the pub a week at £20 a time, that's around three grand a year I save - more than enough for a few suits and another alarm clock

I bought the car because the quality is (in my opinion) streets ahead of most others in the same class, and it's rear wheel drive. Is it more expensive? Yes, very much so. Is it worth it? To someone who isn't passionate about cars, no, not at all. No way. For me, it was worth every penny. I drove a friends brand new focus the other day and it was, in my opinion, and judging it on my standards, god awful. I couldn't live with it as everything, the interior trim quality, the brake feel, the throttle calibration, everything made me wince. However, OTR price is a third of what my car was. Is my car, three times the price of the focus, three times better? No. Is it twice as good? No. However I feel the extra quality justifies the cost for what I want. There is no other car on the market that meets all I ask of a car and I am happy to pay the premium for something which I enjoy every single day.

I will try to illustrate this with an analogy: Is a £40 bottle of aftershave twenty times better than £2 can of body spray?

It was an interesting point someone made earlier about a £1200 watch. I have no interest in watches, my phone does the job remarkably well. But if someone likes their watches, and they can afford to spend that much on one, then I have no problem with it. I have a friend who spends a grand a month on flying helicopters, and although I wouldn't do it, I have no problem with him doing that as it makes him happy.

I think perhaps what people are getting at is that you appear to be aiming to "social climb" and yet you are wasting the money you earn on toys and do not mention owning your own property (only living in a flash appartment) or having substantial savings towards one. The middle classes take care of the bread and butter of property first, the possessions come later if and when circumstances allow.

For me, this would indicate what in my day was referred to as a "Flash Harry", or what later became known as an "Essex Lad" rather than someone middle class:D Foolish rather than thrifty, show but no substance: these are not MC traits:)

Norma_Desmond

the_flying_pig wrote: »

with respect your boasting makes you sound like a complete @rse to me mate but, yes, if you have a degree and a comfortably above average [if hardly colossal] wage then i'd say that you probably are MC by most sensible definitions.

And out of respect (again) to Eskimo, no one with real class would boast about a massive telly and cinema gear, or call their sitting room a 'lounge'.

When did you last see the above in a stately home?

thorsoak

Eskimo12345 wrote: »

I grew up in a modest house with my two siblings and my folks. My old man worked full time all his life, office based on the same wage as shop floor folks. My old dear took a part time job when I was 16. The telly in the lounge was only replaced by my grandparents hand-me-downs when they got a new one as we couldn't afford to buy one; all our winter coats were presents from my grandfolks, who also worked all their lives. I worked part time to put myself through uni and only relied on the folks to feed & home me during the holidays.

Now, at 29, I have a good job and earned around £37k in the last 12 months. Last year I bought a three year old m sport beemer for 12k in cash. I live on my own in a large apartment in the middle of town, with a massive telly and £5k's worth of home cinema gear in the lounge. My alarm clock was £300, and I'm currently saving £500 a month towards a house. Nothing I've bought was ever on credit as it didn't take my degree in physics to work out that saving up for something is cheaper than buying it on credit.

Personally I reckon that due to my income and resultant lifestyle, I'm middle class. To be honest, compared to what my folks had I feel like I'm loaded beyond my wildest dreams. I buy new suits for fun. However my older mates at work reckon middle class means that mummy & daddy had so much money that you don't have to work, and so I'm still working class.

Whadya reckon, am I middle class? Or if you think I am still plain old working class, do I have a chance of making my (future) kids middle class by continuing to advance my career so I earn enough to buy their education etc so they will be?

Definitely not middle class - were you so, you would refer to "Mummy" not "my old dear" !

PS - middle class think it vulgar to talk about how much one's possessions cost/are worth!

hcb42

my alarm clock was about £100. i am on the up.;)


EDIT: Poor OP. I always thought that the class was linked to the A/B/C or mosaic classifications etc, and therefore could change if your situation changed, which i guess is what the OP was asking.. Anyway googled and found this interesting article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_the_United_Kingdom

By that standard I would now be classified as middle middle, although could be the spiralist meritocracy in that I have moved about a bit, although never heard that before today! Parents were definitely working class.

I drive a Yaris diesel auto.:j

ninky_2

this should help everyone decide.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/British_class_system

the_flying_pig

moggylover wrote: »

...As to the rest of your post, I know people with little income who are most definitely "middle class" and plenty with middle to big incomes who are most definitely NOT (indeed, some of them would give the worst chavs a very good run for their money:D). Your way of assessing it would almost make Wayne Rooney upper middle class !!!!!!:eek::eek: ...

What a nonsense. I emphasised education above all in my definition of MC. Unless you think Wayne Rooney is “capable of reading, writing, and speaking very well (e.g. to A level standard).”

thorsoak

Just for Eskimo12345 ......

http://www.correntewire.com/wrong_tune