Housing Benefits and 'casual' work

nickthegreat

Hi

I've got a bit of a problem. I work 12 hours a week in a small bar. For my benefits claim to go through I've been asked to provide some pay slips - which I don't get. So I got an employer's certificate for my employer to fill out, but he's saying that I'm run through the payrole as 'casual' staff, because of the number of hours and infrequency that I work.

Can anyone provide me with advice please? I don't want to drop my employer in the !!!!, if indeed he is doing something wrong, and I don't want to have to lie and say that I no longer work.

Would a letter from my employer stating the maximum hours I work be acceptable?

Thanks

cassieB57

You are entitled to a payslip if you are an employee; this must show your gross pay and any deductions shown individually, eg for tax, nI etc.If your employer doesnt do this he/she is breaking the law. For HB purposes, the need proof of earnings, not hours so a letter stating what they have paid for (usually) the last 5 weeks might suffice.

HappyMJ

12 hours at minimum wages wouldn't need any tax or NI deductions and I'm assuming you get your money in cash and I'm also assuming their record keeping on that payment is a bit lacking. They probably don't even know what they have paid you. The employer isn't breaking any laws on that for such a small payment. Your money probably just comes straight out of the till at the end of the day. Here you go here's your £24 for tonights shift...bye...no records anywhere. How many very small employers pay casual workers in cash from their own pocket. A lot. You can self declare the earnings to the council. Keep your own records of the times you work and the amounts you are paid.

If you had a letter stating maximum hours you won't get all the HB you would be entitled too so I wouldn't do that.

shellsuit

HappyMJ wrote: »

12 hours at minimum wages wouldn't need any tax or NI deductions and I'm assuming you get your money in cash and I'm also assuming their record keeping on that payment is a bit lacking. They probably don't even know what they have paid you. The employer isn't breaking any laws on that for such a small payment. Your money probably just comes straight out of the till at the end of the day. Here you go here's your £24 for tonights shift...bye...no records anywhere. How many very small employers pay casual workers in cash from their own pocket. A lot. You can self declare the earnings to the council. Keep your own records of the times you work and the amounts you are paid.

If you had a letter stating maximum hours you won't get all the HB you would be entitled too so I wouldn't do that.

You are joking aren't you? :cool:

____________________





You should be getting wage slips. Tell them you need them for your HB claim and see what they come up with.

HappyMJ

shellsuit wrote: »

You are joking aren't you? :cool:

____________________





You should be getting wage slips. Tell them you need them for your HB claim and see what they come up with.

A payslip does not need to be professionally generated as most of us are used to. It can simply be a figure stated on the envelope the money comes in as there are no deduction to make then it can just be written as £24 or whatever it is and that's it. It does not need to contain anything else.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10027228

If you read into it a "worker" isn't an employee and isn't entitled to a payslip. It's quite complex but it's all legal. Another source is my accountant.

shellsuit

HappyMJ wrote: »

A payslip does not need to be professionally generated as most of us are used to. It can simply be a figure stated on the envelope the money comes in as there are no deduction to make then it can just be written as £24 or whatever it is and that's it. It does not need to contain anything else.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10027228

That's not what I was talking about.

HappyMJ

shellsuit wrote: »

That's not what I was talking about.

What then? Workers don't have an entitlement to payslips.

cassieB57

HappyMJ wrote: »

What then? Workers don't have an entitlement to payslips.

No, but all 'employees' do which is what I said in my first post. The OP may indeed be a 'worker'; the status is also defined.

Should you be given a payslip?


You do not have a right to receive a pay slip if you are:

• not an employee; for example contractors, freelancers or 'workers'
• a member of the police service
• a merchant seaman, master or crew member working in share fishing and paid solely by a share in the profits or gross earnings of a fishing vessel

• 
  Casual or irregular worker
  
  If you agree with most of the statements below, then it is likely that you are a worker.
• you occasionally undertake work for a particular company or business
• the company has no obligation to offer you work and you do not have to accept it - you only accept work when you are able to or willing to
• if you do accept work, your contract describes the relationship as 'casual', 'freelance', 'zero hours', 'as required' or similar
• you had to sign the company's standard terms and conditions in order to get the work
• whilst at work, you are under the supervision or control of a company manager or director
• you are expected to perform the work yourself
• the company deducts tax and National Insurance contributions from your wages
• the company provides any tools, equipment or materials that you need to undertake your work

The lack of any obligation to offer or accept work may prevent you from being an employee. The obligation to perform the work personally is likely to place you in the wider 'worker' category.
The statements above use the example of work undertaken for a 'company'. However, they apply equally if you work for a sole trader, partnership or any other form of business organisation

However, the bar-owner should still have a record of payments made and so should be able to provide details for the OP's HB claim (or for any other reason the OP might need it now or in the future, like a JSA claim, WTC claim or Tax Return for example)

nickthegreat

HappyMJ wrote: »

12 hours at minimum wages wouldn't need any tax or NI deductions and I'm assuming you get your money in cash and I'm also assuming their record keeping on that payment is a bit lacking. They probably don't even know what they have paid you. The employer isn't breaking any laws on that for such a small payment. Your money probably just comes straight out of the till at the end of the day. Here you go here's your £24 for tonights shift...bye...no records anywhere. How many very small employers pay casual workers in cash from their own pocket. A lot. You can self declare the earnings to the council. Keep your own records of the times you work and the amounts you are paid.

If you had a letter stating maximum hours you won't get all the HB you would be entitled too so I wouldn't do that.

yup, that's exactly what is happening.

so its ok for me to say to them that i get cash in hand, £70 a week, no pay slips AND I'm not on the payroll?

surely that isn't proof of anything??



@cassie - problem is the bar owner is putting the my wages through as casual labour, so isn't willing to/or can't fill in the Employer's certificate - whether rightly or wrongly.

While I could quit my job and receive exactly the same amount of JSA for the week, I'd rather be working and not waste more people's time/money

shellsuit

HappyMJ wrote: »

What then? Workers don't have an entitlement to payslips.

You said

12 hours at minimum wages wouldn't need any tax or NI deductions and I'm assuming you get your money in cash and I'm also assuming their record keeping on that payment is a bit lacking. They probably don't even know what they have paid you. The employer isn't breaking any laws on that for such a small payment. Your money probably just comes straight out of the till at the end of the day. Here you go here's your £24 for tonights shift...bye...no records anywhere. How many very small employers pay casual workers in cash from their own pocket. A lot. You can self declare the earnings to the council. Keep your own records of the times you work and the amounts you are paid.

If you had a letter stating maximum hours you won't get all the HB you would be entitled too so I wouldn't do that.

The employer should be keeping records of all their staff regardless of how little hours they are working as if they're not, they're breaking the law.

It doesn't matter whether someone is paid just £10 a week, it all should be declared and recorded whether they have to pay tax and NI or not and all employees should be on the payroll.

That's why I asked if you were joking.

nickthegreat

shellsuit wrote: »

You said



The employer should be keeping records of all their staff regardless of how little hours they are working as if they're not, they're breaking the law.

It doesn't matter whether someone is paid just £10 a week, it all should be declared and recorded whether they have to pay tax and NI or not and all employees should be on the payroll.

That's why I asked if you were joking.

like i said, apparently he runs it all through as 'casual' labour. i don't really know what that means, but it doesn't help me claim housing benefit.

in fact it puts me in the situation where I have to quit and jump on JSA. although it is my employer that put me in this position, there must be thousands like me, and it encourages people to cheat the system