Housing Benefits and 'casual' work

shellsuit

nickthegreat wrote: »

like i said, apparently he runs it all through as 'casual' labour. i don't really know what that means, but it doesn't help me claim housing benefit.

in fact it puts me in the situation where I have to quit and jump on JSA. although it is my employer that put me in this position, there must be thousands like me, and it encourages people to cheat the system

Obviously you're not on the pay roll then.

Not being funny, but if your employer is stopping you claiming something you need because they're not above board, then report them!

nickthegreat

shellsuit wrote: »

Obviously you're not on the pay roll then.

Not being funny, but if your employer is stopping you claiming something you need because they're not above board, then report them!

i'd rather quit my job, or get fired, and jump on JSA which would pay me exactly the same each week, rather than report him.

he gave me shifts when i was desperate and quite frankly you don't "crap where you eat" - i'm a local of the same bar and live just across the road.

the point is that whilst he is doing something wrong, i can't be the only one in this situation. which means that there are a lot of people out there that potentially aren't as honest as me and just aren't declaring their wages.

ultimately i'm being penalized for being honest. it is a stupid system. is reporting him or quitting really the only way out of this??

shellsuit

nickthegreat wrote: »

i'd rather quit my job, or get fired, and jump on JSA which would pay me exactly the same each week, rather than report him.

he gave me shifts when i was desperate and quite frankly you don't "crap where you eat" - i'm a local of the same bar and live just across the road.

the point is that whilst he is doing something wrong, i can't be the only one in this situation. which means that there are a lot of people out there that potentially aren't as honest as me and just aren't declaring their wages.

ultimately i'm being penalized for being honest. it is a stupid system. is reporting him or quitting really the only way out of this??

He's taking advantage of people like you. That's how he gets away with it, because he knows there will be people who need work even if it's paying buttons, and he is rubbing his hands together because he's only having to pay buttons.

He might come across as a decent man and I know people shouldn't crap on their own doorstep, but what he is doing is illegal.

Infact working for cash in hand is illegal too, so I'd report him or get out of there ASAP.

nickthegreat

shellsuit wrote: »

He's taking advantage of people like you. That's how he gets away with it, because he knows there will be people who need work even if it's paying buttons, and he is rubbing his hands together because he's only having to pay buttons.

He might come across as a decent man and I know people shouldn't crap on their own doorstep, but what he is doing is illegal.

Infact working for cash in hand is illegal too, so I'd report him or get out of there ASAP.

i enjoy working there - its unreasonable that the only way out of this is to quit. given the prevalence of people that DO pay cash in hand (most small bars / pubs I've come across) the system is a bit messed up. i'm just going to join the ever growing number of people on job seekers.

surely if i quit my job now they'll just ask for my P45 anyway?

can i not just claim I'm self employed?

HappyMJ

nickthegreat wrote: »

i enjoy working there - its unreasonable that the only way out of this is to quit. given the prevalence of people that DO pay cash in hand (most small bars / pubs I've come across) the system is a bit messed up. i'm just going to join the ever growing number of people on job seekers.

surely if i quit my job now they'll just ask for my P45 anyway?

can i not just claim I'm self employed?

I doubt you will get a P45. As a "worker" you don't actually quit you just stop turning up. Being paid small amounts cash in hand is not illegal. I am an employer. My employer return form P11 does not require me to enter any figures for employees or workers who earn under the lower earnings limit of national insurance. All I do is tick a box. See HMRC's information here.. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/intro/calculations.htm

I know many pub landlords and the people that work there and that is exactly what they do. If it really is illegal then there are so many small businesses breaking the law... You enjoy working there so keep the job and declare your earnings.

The system doesn't encourage people to "cheat" the system. Even though I don't fill in a P11 for "workers" working in a bar you'll have contact with people who potentially work at the same jobcentre you sign on at or at the council so you still need to declare earnings.

You can claim that you are self employed it's effectively the same.

nickthegreat

HappyMJ wrote: »

I doubt you will get a P45. As a "worker" you don't actually quit you just stop turning up. Being paid small amounts cash in hand is not illegal. I am an employer. My employer return form P11 does not require me to enter any figures for employees or workers who earn under the lower earnings limit of national insurance. All I do is tick a box. See HMRC's information here..

I know many pub landlords and the people that work there and that is exactly what they do. If it really is illegal then there are so many small businesses breaking the law... You enjoy working there so keep the job and declare your earnings.

The system doesn't encourage people to "cheat" the system. Even though I don't fill in a P11 for "workers" working in a bar you'll have contact with people who potentially work at the same jobcentre you sign on at or at the council so you still need to declare earnings.

You can claim that you are self employed it's effectively the same.

so what exactly am i saying to the benefits office then? they want the employer's certificate filled in - am I just saying that I am treated as a casual 'worker' rather than an employee because i earn under the lower earnings limit?

You must record this information on a separate form P11 or equivalent payroll record (either electronic or paper) for each employee if any of the following apply:

• You pay an employee an amount that's equal to or above the Lower Earnings Limit (LEL). For the tax year 2010-11 the LEL is £97 in any week or at least £421 in any month.
• HMRC has issued you with a tax code for your employee.
• You're required to operate a tax code taken from your employee's form P45.
• You're required to operate tax code BR (Basic Rate tax) for an employee. This may be because the form P46 wasn't completed in time for the employee's first pay day, or because box C on their P46 was ticked.

If you don't need to fill in form P11 for an employee - for example because they don't earn enough - you'll still need to keep a record of the employee's name and address and the payments you make to them for each pay period.

pandaspot

why wont he complete the earnings certificate?? he only has to put down what you earned over the last 5 week. the hb office will not go checking with anyone.

and no the hb office will not just accept a handwritten letter off you saying what you earn, as you said this is not proof of anything.

nickthegreat

pandaspot wrote: »

why wont he complete the earnings certificate?? he only has to put down what you earned over the last 5 week. the hb office will not go checking with anyone.

and no the hb office will not just accept a handwritten letter off you saying what you earn, as you said this is not proof of anything.

i have no idea other than he says he runs staff through the books as casual workers - i assume he must have employees that work over the LEL.

either way I got a letter this morning saying that I've been awarded the full amount for my HB. for the second time in a row the council haven't bothered to double check my earnings. odd, but i'm not complaining.

pandaspot

That's bad of them just awarding benefit without proof of income. Just keep them informed of any changes to avoid any overpayments

nickthegreat

pandaspot wrote: »

That's bad of them just awarding benefit without proof of income. Just keep them informed of any changes to avoid any overpayments

yeah, i know! oh well, i'd been put in a crap position anyway. lets hope they saw that i'd recently admitted to an £800 error in their favour so thought i was trustworthy.