Some advice please.

[Deleted User]

We rent a cottage from a private LL who is a farmer.

When we moved in he charged us for oil (house has inadequate oil central heating) which he had put in the tank more than a month before we moved in. I queried this but he insisted that we had to pay the whole bill.

There was a very large (and ugly) fireplace with a multiburner stove in the sitting rooom.

The only cleaning that was done before we moved in was the carpets and one bedroom was painted. We paid a months rent in advance plus a months rent as deposit. We have had no notifiucation that the money has been lodged with a thrid party.

When we had the stove and chimney swept we discovered that the stove had been illegally de commisioned. It had originally fuelled the central heating, the manufacturers told me that there had been instances of the same model having the boiler disconnected blowing up and one instance resulted in a fatality. We approached the land lord, requesting that he remove the stove and put in a new, smaller one. He told us that as far as he was concered the boiler was perfectly safe, he would take it out, but would not replace it, which left us with a huge hole in the wall. I bought a small stove and had it installed at a cost to us of £1500, we were recommended to have the chimney lined which we did; we also needed a new chimney pot and cowl, this the LL generously agreed to pay for all £182.00 of it.

We have given 2 months notice of our intention to move out at the end of March. Having been warned we would have difficulty getting our deposit back, I have cancelled the SO for the last months rent. Despite send a letter asking for meeting the LL had not been near nor by, there is half a tank of oil at a cost of £325......and the stove. There is nothing we can do regarding the liner, can we legally remove the stove as we paid for it and its installation????? I am intending to bill the LL for the oil thats left in the tank, if he does not pay for it I presume I can use the small claims court to get the money back. I will get a witness as to the amount of oil that is left in the tank the day we move out.

When we put the stove in it was our intention to stay in the cottage for a number of years, unfortunately circumstances and my husbands health mean we have to move closer to the town.

I need advice as to if I can remove the stove legally, and the other things are also legal. I should tell you that we are in Scotland.

snoopytweety

Don't really know too much about the rest - but if the deposit is not registered with one of the three agencies I am sure there is something about being able to sue the LL for 3 times the deposit amount??????

perthperson

There's no deposit scheme in Scotland.

G_M

A bit hard to understand exactly what the key issues are but I'll try:

Deleted_User wrote: »

When we moved in he charged us for oil (house has inadequate oil central heating do you mean you feel oil ch is inadequate? (it isn't) or this particular oil boiler is inadequate? )which he had put in the tank more than a month before we moved in. I queried this but he insisted that we had to pay the whole bill. Seems fair. The house comes with oil ch, and needs oil to power it. This needs paying for just as gas would. The issue is : did you agree how much oil was in the tank at the start (if it was gas, you'd take a meter reading) and what you were paying for?

There was a very large (and ugly) fireplace with a multiburner stove in the sitting rooom.

The only cleaning that was done before we moved in was the carpets and one bedroom was painted.OK. Was there a check-in inventory describing the condition, and did you agree/sign it? We paid a months rent in advance plus a months rent as deposit. Normal We have had no notifiucation that the money has been lodged with a thrid party.Does not need to be in Scotland

When we had the stove and chimney swept we discovered that the stove had been illegally de commisioned. It had originally fuelled the central heating, the manufacturers told me that there had been instances of the same model having the boiler disconnected blowing up and one instance resulted in a fatality. Hard to understand. How can a boiler that is decommissioned 'blow up'?We approached the land lord, requesting that he remove the stove and put in a new, smaller one. He told us that as far as he was concered the boiler was perfectly safe, he would take it out, but would not replace it, which left us with a huge hole in the wall.This sounds as if he has done something to please you as requested I bought a small stove and had it installed at a cost to us of £1500,I assume the LL had agreed to this? we were recommended to have the chimney lined which we did; we also needed a new chimney pot and cowl, this the LL generously agreed to pay for all £182.00 of it.Again, as you say, helpfu;/generous

We have given 2 months notice of our intention to move out at the end of March. Is this when your contract expires? Or is it a periodic tenancy?Having been warned we would have difficulty getting our deposit back, I have cancelled the SO for the last months rent.So dispite all the help the LL has given you, you've chosen to withold rent due and go into arrears? Despite send a letter asking for meeting the LL had not been near nor by, there is half a tank of oil at a cost of £325......and the stove. But you are not leaving till the end of March! The LL will probobly arrange to come round when, or shortly before, you leave. That's 6 weeks from now! There is nothing we can do regarding the liner, can we legally remove the stove as we paid for it and its installation????? I am intending to bill the LL for the oil thats left in the tank,Since you paid for whatever oil was in the tank at the start, the LL should pay for whatver oil is in the tank at the end if he does not pay for it I presume I can use the small claims court to get the money back. I will get a witness as to the amount of oil that is left in the tank the day we move out.Correct, though you seem to be assuming the worst.

When we put the stove in it was our intention to stay in the cottage for a number of years, unfortunately circumstances and my husbands health mean we have to move closer to the town.

I need advice as to if I can remove the stove legally, and the other things are also legal. I should tell you that we are in Scotland.

What agreement did you reach with the LL when you installed the stove? I assume, as noted above, that you DID get agreement?

If not, then your obligation is to leave the property in the same state as at the start. Few LLs would object to improvements (though re-decorating in purple without permission might get you into trouble!), but unless the LL agreed to pay for the stove you can't really expect him to pay for something he did not want! Yes, of course you can remove the stove - it's yours. But you should make good any damage.

[Deleted User]

I am sorry your reply is not helpful.

The oil in the tank was put in by the LL 6 weeks before we moved in, he had kept the heating on whilst the house was empty, he would not agree to us paying anything less than the full amount.

The boiler is old, I had to make him get the boiler serviced as was specified in the contract. The radiators are not big enough to heat the rooms even with the TRV's turned right up and the Thermostat on 25+ the boiler drinks oil. Our neighbour has the same problem, LL refuses to do anything about it.

Regarding the stove issue, we asked him twice to consider putting a new stove in, the original one was well over 30 years old, and very much on its last legs, all he would do was to take out the fire and surround so we were left with no option but to install and pay for the new stove. The manufacturers of the original stove sent me a circular from the Health and Safety people there have been several instances where boilers that have been drained have blown up, because they have not been correctly decommisioned, one such incedent resulted in a fatallity. Therefore the manufacturers themselves said that the stove was dangerous and should be removed, Our landlord just did not believe what was written on a sheet of paper in front of him, inplied it was a load of cobblers. I was not prepared to take the risk.

Regarding the rent, we have never been in arrears and are not now, the landlord has a full months rent as a deposit. He has not objected to the fact that I have cancelled the standing order.

I have asked him to make a contribution towards the installtion of the stove and to re-emburse us for the oil we have just had put in the tank, we always keep the tank topped up cannot afford to run out of oil in the weather we have been having. The last bill was £325 for 500L and thats what will be in the tank when we leave.

We gave him 2 months notice that we were leaving to enable him to get a new tennant lined up, which he has done.

There will be no damage when the stove is removed, just the pipe sticking out of the wall which will be capped, what he does then is up to him. He saw the stove being installed and was quite happy with its installation. The cottage is in far better condition than when we moved in. We had the insulation in the roof brought up to standard through the goverment and our power supplier at no cost to either of us. The garden was in a terrible mess, for our own benefit we spent hours on it. We also had a proper wood store built again at not cost to the landlord, he was quite happy for us to do this as long as we did not expect him to pay for it.

Our landlords attitude is if you want something doing, do it yourselves and I am not paying for it. Our new landlord is totally different...... what can I do to make your life more comfortable, I want you to be happy living here, a refreshing change.

G_M

Deleted_User wrote: »

I am sorry your reply is not helpful.

The oil in the tank was put in by the LL 6 weeks before we moved in, he had kept the heating on whilst the house was empty, he would not agree to us paying anything less than the full amount. Which is why I said: "did you agree how much oil was in the tank at the start (if it was gas, you'd take a meter reading) and what you were paying for?" If you agreed to pay whatever the LL asked at the start you will have to live with that decision.


The boiler is old, I had to make him get the boiler serviced as was specified in the contract. Which apparantly he did. Good for him The radiators are not big enough to heat the rooms even with the TRV's turned right up and the Thermostat on 25+the boiler drinks oil.Some boilers are more efficient than others. Our neighbour has the same problem, As stated, some boilers are more efficient than others LL refuses to do anything about it. There is no obligation on a LL to provide a boiler of a certain standard, only to provide a means of heating

Regarding the stove issue, we asked him twice to consider putting a new stove in, the original one was well over 30 years old, and very much on its last legs, all he would do was to take out the fire and surround so we were left with no option but to install and pay for the new stove. The manufacturers of the original stove sent me a circular from the Health and Safety people there have been several instances where boilers that have been drained have blown up, because they have not been correctly decommisioned, one such incedent resulted in a fatallity. Therefore the manufacturers themselves said that the stove was dangerous and should be removed, Was it decommissioned? If a boiler was 'drained' but still used, yes this would be dangerous. If it was not being used I see no problem. However from your earlier post I understood the LL had, in fact, removed the stove?Our landlord just did not believe what was written on a sheet of paper in front of him, inplied it was a load of cobblers. I was not prepared to take the risk.

Regarding the rent, we have never been in arrears and are not now, the landlord has a full months rent as a deposit. He has not objected to the fact that I have cancelled the standing order. Your ealier post stated " I have cancelled the SO for the last months rent." I took this to mean you intended to withold the rent that was due for the last month, thus putting yourself into arrears. However perhaps you intend to pay the rent by some other means. Cash? Cheque? That would be fine.

I have asked him to make a contribution towards the installtion of the stove which he may/may not agree to. He has no obligation to contribute to an installation you chose to undertake and to re-emburse us for the oil we have just had put in the tank, we always keep the tank topped up cannot afford to run out of oil in the weather we have been having. The last bill was £325 for 500L and thats what will be in the tank when we leave.Seems fair. As suggested, wait till the tenancy ends. It's a bit early/premature to be getting upset by lack of response this soon!

We gave him 2 months notice that we were leaving to enable him to get a new tennant lined up, which he has done.

There will be no damage when the stove is removed, just the pipe sticking out of the wall which will be capped, what he does then is up to him. He saw the stove being installed and was quite happy with its installation. The cottage is in far better condition than when we moved in. We had the insulation in the roof brought up to standard through the goverment and our power supplier at no cost to either of us. The garden was in a terrible mess, for our own benefit we spent hours on it. We also had a proper wood store built again at not cost to the landlord, he was quite happy for us to do this as long as we did not expect him to pay for it. Good. So the problems is......?

Our landlords attitude is if you want something doing, do it yourselves and I am not paying for it. Our new landlord is totally different...... what can I do to make your life more comfortable, I want you to be happy living here, a refreshing change.

I'm very pleased you have found a better place with a helpful landlord. You are right, some are better than others, more helpful than others. But I'm still unclear exactly what you are complaining about apart from the initial oil payment, which you rashly agreed to.

[Deleted User]

I did not agree to the oil payment. Three weeks after we moved in we were just presented with the bill and told we owed him, there is no way of measuring what oil is in the tank other than by the halfway mark which is approx 500L There is no way he would take any less than the cost of the full 500L I am not paying the last months rent he already holds that in the deposit. I wrote and told him what I was proposing to do and he has not disagreed. I understand its common practice around here.

tbs624

Deleted_User wrote: »

I am sorry your reply is not helpful.

G_M seems to have done her best to respond to your queries but please bear in mind that you have the whole picture in front of you whereas your first post seems only to be handing out pieces of the jigsaw.

Deleted_User wrote: »

The oil in the tank was put in by the LL 6 weeks before we moved in, he had kept the heating on whilst the house was empty, he would not agree to us paying anything less than the full amount.

Now that puts a different slant on things but you had not included that part in your OP. Of course it is not right for a LL to expect you to subsidise heating costs incurred before you actually signed up/moved in. If there was difficulty in ascertaining the actual amount used then the LL should negotiate a "goodwill" amount with you.

Deleted_User wrote: »

The boiler is old, I had to make him get the boiler serviced as was specified in the contract. ........Regarding the stove issue, we asked him twice to consider putting a new stove in, the original one was well over 30 years old, and very much on its last legs, all he would do was to take out the fire and surround so we were left with no option but to install and pay for the new stove. The manufacturers of the original stove sent me a circular from the Health and Safety people there have been several instances where boilers that have been drained have blown up, because they have not been correctly decommisioned, one such incedent resulted in a fatallity. Therefore the manufacturers themselves said that the stove was dangerous and should be removed, Our landlord just did not believe what was written on a sheet of paper in front of him, inplied it was a load of cobblers. I was not prepared to take the risk.

As G_M has already asked "What agreement did you reach with the LL when you installed the stove? I assume, as noted above, that you DID get agreement?"

Regarding the rent, we have never been in arrears and are not now, the landlord has a full months rent as a deposit. He has not objected to the fact that I have cancelled the standing order.

If you make a decision not to pay your last month's rent then the LL can take you to the Sheriff Court to recover rent due under the contract and not paid. You can end up having to pay the LLs court fees, plus interest and have a CCJ against your name.

Likewise you can pursue the LL to court if you disagree with any proposed deposit deductions and if you can't get resolve over reimbursement of pro rata oil costs

I have asked him to make a contribution towards the installtion of the stove and to re-emburse us for the oil we have just had put in the tank, we always keep the tank topped up cannot afford to run out of oil in the weather we have been having. The last bill was £325 for 500L and thats what will be in the tank when we leave.

So you want to get your LL to pay the costs for the stove which you had installed *and* you want to take the stove away with you when you go. Again as G_M asked, did the LL agree in writing to the installation of the new stove and if yes, on what terms? Have you retained the original stove to put back in its place?

G_M

tbs624 wrote: »

G_M seems to have done his best to respond to your queries ......

Indeed. His very best!

(must be the sensitive side to my nature showing through!)

:beer:

[Deleted User]

The land lord does not give written agreements to ANYTHING which is what concerns me.......after a very bad night we have decided that the stove etc will stay although several people have offered to buy both it and the liner. We are putting it down to experience and will not make the same mistake again. I did write a letter to him informing him of our intention to replace the stove and also when we moved in get permission (verbal, which of course he can deny) to do various things in the house. I have kept a copy of the letter. Although I do not trust him not to have destroyed it.

I disagree about the deposit, I have checked on the register and none of the ladlords proerties or in fact he is registered which is obviously why he gets away with things. If he comes after us for rent for the last month I will take him to court for the cost of installing the fire.....

I have no written agreement that he wil refund the cost of the oil we recently had put into the tank, on the basis of what happened to us I can see him charging the next tenant for the oil, and not refunding us.

Since putting these queries on the site I have spoken to another of the lanlords tenants. he had to get advice from the CAB after his multifuel stove broke down, the LL refused to mend or replace it and the tenant and his family were left without heat for the winter. You wonder why I am so wary of what will happen when we leave.

Browser123

Seeing as the stove appears to be your property, why don't you write to the landlord offering to sell it to him or the next tenants when you move? This way he has the option of paying for it to keep for the next tenants and if he declines you can sell it on.

I'm no expert but you should pay your rent. Then you are the good guys and you can put all your efforts into recovering money for leftover oil and making sure you get your deposit back. I assume you have a receipt for the deposit, or proof from your bank statements that you have paid it?

If he won't pay for the oil - it is your property and perhaps you could sell it back to the oil company when you leave?