Use Co-Op Cashminder at Asda Petrol Pumps

alastairq

I haven't voted, don't use Asda's petrol, and don't 'pay at the pump'...so I actually don't have a personal issue..

The reason for not using Asda petrol is distance....it is much closer to use Morrison's...or Shell, as it happens.....both the same price [125 a litre at present]..

The reason for not using 'pay-at-the-pump' is I have no need to...and often end up buying S&H something nibbly in the shop.....


but that is really down to my circumstances.

However, not having a personal issue doesn't mean I don't take and interest in the situation, offer support, or whatever....

Tupperware_Queen

like Alastair, I very very rarely use pay at pump, as I like to keep all receipts, and have usually found I can't get one when I pay at pump.

Also, I have no idea where there is an Asda petrol station anywhere near me....our local Asda doesn't have one, and can't say I'd go out of my way by 30 plus miles to use one - assuming the next big town Asda has a petrol station - I never go, so have no idea.

So, whilst I follow the thread out of interest, I have never, and am not likely to ever, use the service, so haven't voted or emailed.

Doucam

city to answer your question up there ^

I have already said earlier in this thread that I haven't emailed them as I will never be using any of their shops etc again due to a complaint I had with them before christmas which they have dealt with in a shocking manner. (or should that be haven't bothered to deal with at all?! )

So as I won't be using them and also do not want anything to do with them ever again, and do not want to enter into any type of correspondence with them then I am sorry I won't be emailing them.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Thanks for replying to say why some of you won't be emailing Asda, it boosts my morale when I see people have good reasons not to email (like they don't live nearby, they have had poor experiences in the past so will never return etc).

I have had another response tonight asking for the first six digits of the card number, which my partner has supplied to me and I've sent off to Asda. I will keep the thread updated, in the meantime I'd still encourage others to keep emailing Asda if you haven't already done so. There could be cheaper fuel to be had!

diddly74

Update - Reply today!

Hello Donna,

Thanks for your patience while I have been waiting for the petrol trading team to get back to me.

We have checked this with our Petrol provider and the reason the card is being declined is that we have this card set up on our systems as an Electron card still.

We cannot recall / or find any notification from the banks requesting us to update this card type therefore this is why it has not be completed previously.

The bin range example we have been given is 450875

We are checking with the bank to try and get formal notifications of the change to this card type. I can let you know when we receive this, but this could be within the realms of a couple of weeks to be fair, as the information coming back from the bank is usually very slow.

I hope this has helped and if I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Kind regards


Claire Brant
ASDA Service Team

I have replied thanking her for her continued attention and that I know that the card works at Tescos Pay at Pump!!!

4$£&*(£$&*(!

I have had a reply this afternoon also.

Thank you for your email in response to my colleague Beckie, regarding the use of your card in our petrol station, and for providing me with the first 6 digits of your card.

I have had a response from the petrol team about this issue, and they have advised the following:

We have checked this with our Petrol provider and the reason the card is being declined is that we have this card set up on our systems as an Electron card still. We cannot recall / or find any notification from the banks to us requesting us to update this card type therefore this is why it has not be completed previously.

The bin range example we have been given is 450875

We are checking with the bank to try and get formal notifications of the change to this card type. I can let you know when we receive this, but this could be within the realms of a couple of weeks to be fair, as the information coming back from the bank is usually very slow.

At the moment no clear timescales of when this is fixed, however it is something we will look at updating in the near future.

---

I feel very optimistic about this and think we will get a change on the back of all of this. After all, if you look at http://www.barclaycard.co.uk/business/documents/pdfs/bin_rules.pdf you will see 450875 is clearly listed in the visa debit column (and page 10 confirms the BIN change back in September 2009). As Vicki puts it in her email to me it could be in the 'realms of a couple of weeks' - that's absolutely fine if it is a couple of weeks, we have been waiting since September 2009 for this change.

Then who knows? Perhaps we could get a mention when we pull off a successful campaign in the MSE weekly email :rotfl:

Edit: I have dropped Vicki who sent me this email a brief reply to draw her attention to the Barclaycard document, this may give her some leverage when their team approaches the bank. It's only petrol, but I'm actually getting a tiny bit excited thinking we may have pulled off something great here (I keep telling myself not to count my chickens before they are hatched equally).

tightarsey

CitySlicker, I would be very interested if Cooperative *do* send notification because there are still a lot of unexpired Genuine Cooperative Visa Electron Cards (with Electron Logo) still out there. It is very unlikely Cooperative will confirm this change in writing, because it will make them 'even more' liable for repaying all fees incurred by Visa Electron Card Customers in relation to booking Airline Flights (as there are unexpired Valid Visa Electron cards have been reclassified incorrectly Visa Debit by this bin type 'switch') Cooperative have been shafting customers by charging Visa Debit fees (£18 on flybe.com/£4.50pfpp) when cards are genuine Visa Electron (fee should be zero)

I've just received my new embossed Visa Debit Card replacement replacing my existing Visa Electron Card which expires on 03/11 (31/03/11). The new card is valid from 01/04 (01/04/11). The complete 16 digit card number is identical starting 450875. Its a shame I can't upload the cards (without shielding numbers) to show they are 'identical' card numbers (with different consecutive end/start dates)

So unless ALL Cooperative Visa Electron Cards in issue expire on the 31/03/11, which they don't, and coincidently, Cooperative had made the system change on the 01/04/11 - They are clearing breaching advertising standards by advertising at least one of these cards incorrectly. They can't be both a Visa Electron card and a Visa Debit Card unless the system change occurred on the 01/04/11 for everyone. (the bin type 'switch' actually took place around 1st October 2010)

Which proves the point - Cooperative are ripping off their existing customers with valid Visa Electron cards, by charging them Visa Debit card fees. Cooperative have been trying to keep this mistake 'under the radar', but issues like this highlight the f**k up.

The only real way to solve this, is by Cooperative putting up their hands and admitting they have made a big mistake - reissuing all Cards with the correct Card number 4988 (Visa Debit). Forced to refund ALL fees incurred incorrectly by Customers using a Genuine Visa Electron Card since October 1st 2010 by examining all card transactions over this period. For this reason I can't see Cooperative issuing confirmation until all current Visa Electron Cards have expired. That's why the matter is currently with the FO.

dojoman

It is not the Coops fault that certain companies/firms are not updating their BIN database.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

This is all very interesting and I am really eager to get to the bottom of who is to blame. I can see Co-Op are being sneaky, and as anyone who follows my threads will tell I had enough of their Smile outfit last year and closed the whole lot down, they caused me massive problems which resulted in a £125 gesture to avoid an Ombudsman complaint.

Co-Op are not an ethical (or even a particularly good) bank. They identify niches and profit from them. The Cashminder card is a case in point. They are not bankruptcy friendly at all. They have simply identified a corner of the market which is under-supported and they are exploiting it (remember there is no sentiment in business).

Although my partner is a discharged bankrupt, and it is their card I am doing the battling for, she wishes to get cheap petrol. That's it, nothing more nothing less. I think the best way to describe her relationship with Co-Op is one of toleration. No other bank will give her a Visa card until the bankruptcy drops off her credit file, the NatWest looked hopeful at one point but they now normally issue Solo cards to their basic account 'Step' customers (which are only available following discharge).

Tightarsey you have a number of points I'd like to address and try to get my head around. I know the problems with Cashminder and how the card numbers have been reissued. I know ultimately if Co-Op had issued DR card numbers from the start we would not be in this mess right now.

tightarsey wrote: »

It is very unlikely Cooperative will confirm this change in writing, because it will make them 'even more' liable for repaying all fees incurred by Visa Electron Card Customers in relation to booking Airline Flights (as there are unexpired Valid Visa Electron cards have been reclassified incorrectly Visa Debit by this bin type 'switch') Cooperative have been shafting customers by charging Visa Debit fees (£18 on flybe.com/£4.50pfpp) when cards are genuine Visa Electron (fee should be zero)

Is it Co-Op's responsibility to notify the change? If you read my post a couple of posts up you will see the Barclaycard PDF file which states on page 10 the card number we are referring to was reclassified back in September 2009. Surely this is Visa's responsibility not Co-Op?

tightarsey wrote: »

I've just received my new embossed Visa Debit Card replacement replacing my existing Visa Electron Card which expires on 03/11 (31/03/11). The new card is valid from 01/04 (01/04/11). The complete 16 digit card number is identical starting 450875. Its a shame I can't upload the cards (without shielding numbers) to show they are 'identical' card numbers (with different consecutive end/start dates)

I don't doubt you at all, there is no need to upload the card as I believe you wholly based on what others are saying.

tightarsey wrote: »

So unless ALL Cooperative Visa Electron Cards in issue expire on the 31/03/11, which they don't, and coincidently, Cooperative had made the system change on the 01/04/11 - They are clearing breaching advertising standards by advertising at least one of these cards incorrectly. They can't be both a Visa Electron card and a Visa Debit Card unless the system change occurred on the 01/04/11 for everyone. (the bin type 'switch' actually took place around 1st October 2010)

I need to understand this a bit more. I know what you are suggesting, essentially a cut-off date for cards to transfer from Electron to Visa DR status. What is the relevance of 1/4/11 though, that's next month, what happens on that date? What happened on 1/10/10 as well? The only date I have in relation to anything is September 2009 which is the date from Barclaycard Business I mentioned earlier.

tightarsey wrote: »

Which proves the point - Cooperative are ripping off their existing customers with valid Visa Electron cards, by charging them Visa Debit card fees. Cooperative have been trying to keep this mistake 'under the radar', but issues like this highlight the f**k up.

Again I completely agree whatever the change was has been done to benefit Co-Op and not their customers.

tightarsey wrote: »

The only real way to solve this, is by Cooperative putting up their hands and admitting they have made a big mistake - reissuing all Cards with the correct Card number 4988 (Visa Debit). Forced to refund ALL fees incurred incorrectly by Customers using a Genuine Visa Electron Card since October 1st 2010 by examining all card transactions over this period. For this reason I can't see Cooperative issuing confirmation until all current Visa Electron Cards have expired. That's why the matter is currently with the FO.

This last part is probably the most important bit of your post for me. As far as you're concerned, what have you said to Co-Op, what has their reply been, have you had any follow-up, and what's happening with the FO?

If people feel strongly enough about this then I am sure I can rustle up a template letter for people to drop into their branch and pile some pressure on. I'd need a lot more info on this though as I admit to not fully understanding what stops an Electron card being treated as a Visa DR card.

tightarsey

Hi Cityslicker,
Firstly Asda do accept other Electron Cards at Pay at Pump, its not that they don't accept Electron Cards at all.
I've had to do a far bit of research to get to the bottom of the problem, this has involved talking to Visa International regarding Visa Brandings - specifically Visa Electron. Cooperative have blatantly lied to me, misinformed and tried to trivialise my complaint, I don't believe its just a 'technical error' - if it is they are certainly are avoiding sorting out the problem, its an expensive mistake to put right.

Dates: The Oct 1st 2010, is roughly the date the 'switch' took place, before this date my Visa Electron Card had worked perfectly on Aer Lingus, flybe.com, as an Electron Card. Several other people reported problems around 1st Oct 2010. After this date the same card information is treated as Visa Debit - you complete the transaction flybe.com add £18 to the total, at the final step. (the Visa Electron branded card I used is the same card which previously incurred no charge)

In one case, the customer paid at Tesco with a Visa Electron Card, at what seems to be the moment the 'switch' took place, the transaction played up, authorised the funds were withdrawn, but failed to authorise the transaction properly, the amount was debited from the account, the cardholder was unable to get a refund as the funds were held against a card that then no longer existed (the switch literally took place there and then) a Visa Electron Card 450875xx, the card had become a Visa Debit 450875xx, so the money was held in situ, until an investigation was carried out by Tesco, before the customer was refunded. Monies can't be refunded back to a 'different' card.

Regarding the 1st April 2011, this is the date my new Visa Debit Card replacement (note Cooperative call this an 'Online Debit Card' not a Visa Debit Card) with identical 16 digit card number becomes valid/useable - its not physically possible to have two identical card numbers which operate as both Visa Debit and Visa Electron simultaneously. Cooperative will tell you the two cards are identical the same - they are clearly not - as one incurs large fees with travel websites, the other (electron) has no fees.

In order for that to happen 1st April 2011 would have to be the 'switch' day - where Cooperative backend systems switch all cards from Visa Electron to Visa Debit for processing purposes. flybe.com, use the first 4 digits of the card to check the 'bin type'. Retailers get regular updates regarding the card types. 4508 might 'officially' have become Visa Debit in September 2009, but the first cards issued by Cooperative as 'Online Debit Cards' are internally (marked in the chip) Electron Cards, the 6 digit AID number would indicate this. The information has taken time to feed through to retailers, and for retailers to update their systems. With Asda they obviously only update bin type info with official notice from the bank itself. With others their card processing arm would make the change. Its also not something that normally would happen, changing of an exisiting bin type to a different card type - so you can understand why Asda were also confused.

Aer Lingus doesn't currently work because there is both internal website checks made against the card, and card processing checks at time of payment. The website check, note the card is Visa Electron, the card processing check comes back as Visa Debit - the transaction fails.

So assuming the bin type tables updated on 1st Oct 2010, flybe.com (I've spoken in detail to them to) are very quick/'on the ball' to make sure bin type information is correct, because they charge large differentials based on this info. They informed me the card info regarding my card had been updated in October 2010 - showing my card to be Visa Debit (when it clearly wasn't. It was an existing genuine Visa Electron Card , I was selecting Visa Electron payment method, and the previous month the card had worked perfectly as an Visa Electron Card)

There is a complete thread on MSE here, along with formal complaint template letters See here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2762262
Also reported on zdnet.co.uk:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/apples-are-not-the-only-fruit-windows-are-for-gazing-out-of-not-at-10014376/visa-electron-cards-are-now-reclassified-as-visa-debit-to-force-charges-10020712/
or just search google : "Smile Visa Electron Problems", or "Cooperative Visa Electron Problems"

Regarding the FO I forwarded this info to the FO, as I've finally stalemated the complaint with Cooperative. In fairness to Cooperative they did agree to refund all fees I'd been charged incorrectly, and for me to contact them each time until 31st March 2011 whenever I used my card and incurred a fee, in order to process a partial refund. I felt this wasn't a practical solution, and the fact that 1000's of Cooperative Customers are unware and still being charged. I think its about time they put their hands up, posted an apology on their website (on the login page) and examined all the transactions where fees have been incorrectly incurred by customers - and refunded EVERYBODY. Come on Cooperative (if your reading this) show you're still a decent bank - its not too late.

The key here is a valid genuine Visa Electron Card (with a Visa Electron logo) should operate as such until its expiry date, not be 'switched' reassigned Visa Debit before this time, if Cooperative wanted to do that - they should have issued all cards with 4988 (Visa Debit Card numbers) - and more importantly asked their customers if they actually wanted this change, and issued new t&c. Most customers choose to have this card, because it has no fees related to it. Given the choice I'd have an Electron Card tomorrow over Visa Debit.