General question

parsons

bumble1 wrote: »

The problem with that argument is that we have a legal framework, enacted by Parliament, which guarantees access to a range of benefits based upon our sense of social equality.
These are called entitlements by the government and people are invited to apply for them; and, subject to meeting the requisite criteria, people are paid these entitlements in order to allow them maintain a set standard of living, as determined by the powers that be.

The fact that these now appear to have got out of control is more the fault of successive governments who have chosen to use the benefit system to carry favour with the voting populace and keep down both wages and the actual size of the dole queues, whilst allowing the real cost of living to escalate out of control.

If you tell someone they are entitled to £200 they will accept it just as willingly as does a politician who is told he is entitled to a claim for "living" expenses, real or otherwise.

Weaning people off benefits has to be like weaning a baby onto solids.
A slow, gradual process that, if done properly, ensures there is no return.

I absolutely agree with you.

I think the whole matter, as regards your neighbour and a good proportion of 60+'s hinges on the point of 'invited'.

It is not really a question of invitation sometimes, but of ignorance of 'entitlements'.

It is out of ignorance as well as refusual to take up the invitation that a lot of us in our age group don't receive our entitlements.

It is not right that we should be made to feel that we are somehow letting down society by not claiming our entitlements.
I have briefly explained how I feel and would also say, that it goes for quite a lot of others that I know of.

I could count on more than two hands the number of local people that I know that do not claim ESA even though they are entitled to it. I could probably find the same number that refuse to apply for Pension Credit. The average weekly payment per person of Pension Credit for example that is not being claimed is £40. (Approx 30% of the estimated total of eligible claimants do not claim - leaving somewhere between £1,500million and £2,750million unclaimed)

Finally you do make some very valid points about the abuse of Welfare Benefits, but I would not say that everybody would take the £200. Quite a few would be thinking that there must be a catch to it - no one gives away money like that for no reason!

I can only hope that your neighbour does find his way through the maze, and that he feels that he can hold his head up high afterwards. He seems to be a very sincere and honest guy who is trying his best, yet has strong principles. I applaud him for that.
It is a shame that his sort is not more common in this world that we live in.

Plans_all_plans

Does he/would he claim working tax credit?

bumble1

Plans_all_plans wrote: »

Does he/would he claim working tax credit?

Don't know/doubt it

He wasn't asking for help, just told me that with all the increases things were getting "tight", but I know he sees it as his responsibility to bring up his daughter, just as it was when his wife was alive, and she would not have liked him to go cap in hand to the state asking for handouts.

Anyway, I posed the question because I thought the daughter might be able to get some form of grant to help offset the cost of continuing with her studies, which thanks to the replies appears not to be so. I was sure that he would not have viewed an educational grant for study purposes in the same way as a handout, even if someone does now jump in and tell me that they are one and the same thing.

zagfles

Plans_all_plans wrote: »

Does he/would he claim working tax credit?

WTC is claimed together with CTC. I can't see how he can claim for one and not the other - it might be he's not entitled to WTC (eg works less than 16 hours), or his income might be too high to get any, but if he's eligible he'll get some if he gets CTC.

zagfles

bumble1 wrote: »

Weaning people off benefits has to be like weaning a baby onto solids.
A slow, gradual process that, if done properly, ensures there is no return.

The last govt were doing exactly the opposite - extending benefits to those who previously got tax allowances. The family element of tax credits was a direct replacement for the married couples' allowance and additional personal allowance, so anyone who ever claimed either of those is a hypocrite to criticise anyone getting the family element of CTC.

Tax credits exist because the UK tax system takes too much money off some people, especially families because we don't have proper transferrable tax allowances. In France a man supporting a wife and 2 kids will pay considerably less tax than a single person on the same income, because he can use his wife's and kids' tax allowances.

Here such a man will pay exactly the same tax as the single person, because we have independant taxation. So there are "tax credits" to make up for this. Except they don't for people on average or above incomes - such people would be considerably better off with a French style system.

In France you don't tend to get people whinging about tax allowances for families, yet in the UK people whinge about tax credits which are generally worth far less for those on average incomes. Just because it's a payable amount and not a reduction in tax!

bumble1

zagfles wrote: »

WTC is claimed together with CTC. I can't see how he can claim for one and not the other - it might be he's not entitled to WTC (eg works less than 16 hours), or his income might be too high to get any, but if he's eligible he'll get some if he gets CTC.

He took early retirement at 60 when his wife was ill and I believe his income is from an occupational pension topped up with child tax credits. He has been looking to get some part time work, which would probably solve his problem, but so far without success.

I don't have any knowledge of the child tax system so I am unable to comment on its workings.

n.b I guessed the income based upon what he told me i.e he receives just over £1000 per month including tax allowances (presumably CTC), so I have probably overstated the gross income, although this is irrelevant to the original query.
His primary concern was that the rising cost of fuel was slowly eating into his budget and that there was no acceptable alternative which did not affect his daughter. But as Mr Cameron said - we are all in the same boat- some travelling first class on expenses, the rest in steerage ready to go down with the ship.

zagfles

bumble1 wrote: »

He took early retirement at 60 when his wife was ill and I believe his income is from an occupational pension topped up with child tax credits. He has been looking to get some part time work, which would probably solve his problem, but so far without success.

I don't have any knowledge of the child tax system so I am unable to comment on its workings..

Basically it's one application for both, but if he's not working 16 hours he won't be entitled.

bumble1 wrote: »

n.b I guessed the income based upon what he told me i.e he receives just over £1000 per month including tax allowances (presumably CTC), so I have probably overstated the gross income, although this is irrelevant to the original query.
His primary concern was that the rising cost of fuel was slowly eating into his budget and that there was no acceptable alternative which did not affect his daughter. But as Mr Cameron said - we are all in the same boat- some travelling first class on expenses, the rest in steerage ready to go down with the ship.

Well if people refuse to use the lifeboats then what do they expect?

He could be entitled to housing benefit or SMI, pension credit, council tax benefit. But if he doesn't want them I can't really see why you're asking.

bumble1

zagfles wrote: »

Basically it's one application for both, but if he's not working 16 hours he won't be entitled.



Well if people refuse to use the lifeboats then what do they expect?

He could be entitled to housing benefit or SMI, pension credit, council tax benefit. But if he doesn't want them I can't really see why you're asking.

The original question was as to whether any grants or allowances existed for children who wished to stay on at school post 16 e.g. to offset travel costs etc. Not about general benefits or tax credits.

I was merely interested following the conversation with my neighbour. It is not my intention to pry into the private matter of his finances and neither was he asking for assistance

The answer appears to be NO, which I thought it would be, so I think the thread should now be seen as closed.

Thank you all for your input.

parsons

zagfles wrote: »

The last govt were doing exactly the opposite - extending benefits to those who previously got tax allowances. The family element of tax credits was a direct replacement for the married couples' allowance and additional personal allowance, so anyone who ever claimed either of those is a hypocrite to criticise anyone getting the family element of CTC.

Tax credits exist because the UK tax system takes too much money off some people, especially families because we don't have proper transferrable tax allowances. In France a man supporting a wife and 2 kids will pay considerably less tax than a single person on the same income, because he can use his wife's and kids' tax allowances.

Here such a man will pay exactly the same tax as the single person, because we have independant taxation. So there are "tax credits" to make up for this. Except they don't for people on average or above incomes - such people would be considerably better off with a French style system.

In France you don't tend to get people whinging about tax allowances for families, yet in the UK people whinge about tax credits which are generally worth far less for those on average incomes. Just because it's a payable amount and not a reduction in tax!

Are you in the process of moving to live in France?

parsons

bumble1 wrote: »

He took early retirement at 60 when his wife was ill and I believe his income is from an occupational pension topped up with child tax credits. He has been looking to get some part time work, which would probably solve his problem, but so far without success.

I don't have any knowledge of the child tax system so I am unable to comment on its workings.

n.b I guessed the income based upon what he told me i.e he receives just over £1000 per month including tax allowances (presumably CTC), so I have probably overstated the gross income, although this is irrelevant to the original query.
His primary concern was that the rising cost of fuel was slowly eating into his budget and that there was no acceptable alternative which did not affect his daughter. But as Mr Cameron said - we are all in the same boat- some travelling first class on expenses, the rest in steerage ready to go down with the ship.

And what did the Captain shout? Abandon ship!! Every man for himself!!!