Renewal Service Notice - Essex & Suffolk Water

Martin_UK

Essex & Suffolk water have visited our road a couple of times recently. Initially I thought this was due to the new housing development at the end of the road.

They then visited and told us they needed to turn the water supply off for 15 minutes which they did. The water pressure dropped off the next day and when I called Essex & Suffolk water they told me they had been doing work that had unexpectedly caused this.

Essex & Suffolk water have now sent me a letter titled "Renewals Survey Notice". They have told us that one of about 30 houses in the road (terraced), mine included) ,may have a water leak, they need to test and require access to the property and internal water stop valve.

They mention "The Joint responsibility for the maintenance of these pipes is with the home-owners/landlords of the affected properties". This is apparently because we are on a shared supply pipe. The letter goes on to mention they can offer an independent water supply for £450 plus VAT as part of a renewal scheme.

I was under the impression that anything within the boundaries of your property was the property owners responsibility and anything outside of that is the Water companies?

The leaflet and letter Essex & Suffolk water sent seems to point to the shared part of the water main off the main water supply being all the property owners in the terrace's responsibility even though it isn't on our property?

I'm concerned I could get a large bill for this shared water main and the water company maybe using this as a lever to push home owners into paying the £450 to have their own independent supply?

Has anyone else experience this?

Thanks
Martin

Gothicfairy

The water company really doesn't care to be honest if you have a shared supply or not as it does not effect their profits one way or the other. The best for everyone is of course as single supply as you can then be metered and also any problems with your neighbours does not effect you but that is really not going to be the point of the offer.
The work will still need to be done and as they have the scheme they are offering that as a solution rather then making up a story to get money out of people.
Normally the water company is responsible for anything up to the boundry but shared supplies can often be different as they cause more propblems. It would depend on where the pipe work is for a start if it is the communication pipe from the main then it could well be down to the homeowners. I should think that the pipe does also cross some properties even if it does not touch your.
In my road we are on a shared supply and my property boundry is clear but as the houses are laid out my neighbour get the pipe through their garden, we are all responsible for the supply.

If you are unsure then you can always go to OFWAT and ask them to clear up the ruling with regard to shared supplies but I think you might find in this case the water company is right..Sorry.

It might well be worth looking into the single supply though as it could make your life easier in the long run.

alanfp

A minor point (correction?) on the terminology used in the previous post - there is a difference between the communication pipe from the main (generally between the main and your boundary) and the supply pipe (generally from your property boundary to your house). I’m not pointing that out to be picky, but in case it helps you understand any conversations you may have with your water company. Generally the comm. pipe is the responsibility of the water company, but the supply pipe the homeowner's. The key point for the water company is that once the pipe leaves the highway (which includes the pavement) on its way to your house, it is generally NOT THEIR responsibility. From that point on it may be yours alone or yours jointly with your neighbours (or some other landowner).

If you want more info, I would suggest you talk it through with your water company. If you’re still not clear, ask them to send you a leaflet on ‘who owns which pipes’ – I think most water companies have these. Or the info may actually be on their website. If you’re still not sure about things, then you could contact The Consumer Council for Water (CCWater) which represents water and sewerage consumers in England and Wales.

If you are considering having a new independent supply, you can ask if you have to have the work done by them or if you can lay your own supply pipe, for them to connect their communication pipe to at your boundary. This may save you a small amount of money, perhaps.

If you do go for an independent supply, this is a good time to think about getting a meter installed (for free) if you are a low water user. However, you could still ask about having a meter, even with your current arrangement. The water company will look at it and tell you if it’s possible or not.

Interested to know how you get on….

(I work for a water company, so I know a little about these things, although mains/connections is not my main area of expertise).

Martin_UK

Hi GothicFairy and alanfp,

Thanks for the replies. I checked the OFFWAT site and found this link that explains the situation:

www(dot)ofwat(dot)gov(dot)uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes

This mentions "IN most cases, the part of the service pipe taking water from the company's stop tap into the house belongs to the householder or property owner. "

It looks to me like the stop tap location means the "supply pipe" is actually shared between multiple houses and so all the houses are jointly responsible:

www(dot)ofwat(dot)gov(dot)uk/consumerissues/rightsresponsibilities/supplypipes/prs_faq01_rightssupppipes (this is the same diagram as my water company sent me)

What seems odd to me is the letter mentions a leak initially as a reason for the work and then goes onto mention providing a dedicated supply at a reduced cost as part of an improvement program. I'm not clear if the reason is just maintenance to renew the main or a leak because of the new development?

I maybe being cynical but it seems a little suspect to me that just as they connect a new housing development into the water mains they advise us of a leak and the need to renew the water main shortly after.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get sent joint bill to replace the existing supply main which costs each householder significantly more than the cost of the provisioning of an independent supply to each house.

I have a feeling I don't really have much choice and will probably go for the independent water supply to avoid the same in future. I'm going to write to the Water company with further questions to clarify these points.

Thanks
Martin

alanfp

Martin_UK wrote: »

Hi GothicFairy and alanfp,


1.What seems odd to me is the letter mentions a leak initially as a reason for the work and then goes onto mention providing a dedicated supply at a reduced cost as part of an improvement program. I'm not clear if the reason is just maintenance to renew the main or a leak because of the new development?

2.I maybe being cynical but it seems a little suspect to me that just as they connect a new housing development into the water mains they advise us of a leak and the need to renew the water main shortly after.

3.I wouldn't be surprised if we get sent joint bill to replace the existing supply main which costs each householder significantly more than the cost of the provisioning of an independent supply to each house.

4.I have a feeling I don't really have much choice and will probably go for the independent water supply to avoid the same in future. I'm going to write to the Water company with further questions to clarify these points.

Hi again.

Glad you found some good info.

I think you raise valid points here, worthy of discussion...(I took the liberty of numbering your paragraphs for ease of reference).

1. All water companies undertake 'improvement programmes' and often they are related to the individual 'services' ie the comm. pipes and the supply pipes, as experience tells them that's where a lot of the water gets lost.

2.It's incredibly unlikely, if not impossible, that the new development has caused the leak. But it may be that because of the new development, and therefore work being done on the water company's main, they have only now spotted the leak. As a matter of interest, was their letter specific to your road, or did it say that 'on average' one in 30 houses has a leak on its supply pipe?
BTW, you talk about being cynical like that's a bad thing!

3.I would be surprised, as generally that would be cheaper for them to achieve (and why the arrangement is there in the first place). Do ask them for all options that you have and the associated costs. I'm sure that the quotes they give you will be completely transparent - even if you think they are high.

4. You shouldn't feel pressurised to take any particular course of action, but do seek answers. Putting a request in writing has advantages, as you can digest the response at your leisure, but don't forget you can talk to them on the phone - you may think of something else you want to ask them while you're discussing options. It sounds as though one question to ask might be "what if I do nothing now and leave things for a few months? Will I still be able to take up the same offer at the same price?". Also, don't be afraid to collar a supervisor informally if they are still in your road and talk things through with him/her.

Premier_2

Martin_UK wrote: »

...They mention "The Joint responsibility for the maintenance of these pipes is with the home-owners/landlords of the affected properties". ...

On a slightly different tangent, did they also mention that they may at their discretion repair the existing pipe for free?

There are some terms where this doesn't apply, usually anything complicated like digging under floors or foundations (such as the home, garage, garden shed, garden walls, etc) nor digging up driveways (concrete, paved, etc) nor in specific cases of adverse access such as a very long pipe where they are not sure the actual location of the leak - this might apply to you or where access permission is required over another persons property, nor if the property is clearly in a state of disrepair.

But worth asking nicely; they can only say no

Remember whilst what they said is correct regarding legal responsibility, they have the obligation to conserve water by identifying (which they have already started to do) and stopping leakage.

alanfp

"On a slightly different tangent, did they also mention that they may at their discretion repair the existing pipe for free?"

Good post - this is true if it's your supply pipe that's leaking, but I got the impression that's not the case in this case.

In case anyone else has a leaking supply pipe, though, it's worth noting.

Martin_UK

Hi all,

Thanks for the info.

To answer some of the questions:

1. The letter didn't mention Water company may at their discretion repair the existing pipe for free.

2. The letter mentions houses 63-69 in an adjacent road and houses 2-36 in our road

Some more details on the content of the letter "We have identified a leak within the water supply pipe feeding the above mentioned properties. It is our duty to inform you that we need to do a full and thorough survey. During the survey we will require access to your house and garden, to identify the existing water supply entry point and note any potential obstacles or hazards. Prior to the technician attending the appointment, please locate and make accessible your internal stop valve, which is normally under the kitchen sink or downstairs toilet. An appoint has been arrange for a leakage technician to attend. Please ensure no washing machines, dishwashers or other large water using devices on this day, until the survey has been completed. This work is being undertaken as part of a pro-active renewal program where shared supplies are known to be in poor condition. Essex & Suffolk Water are in a posistion to undertake this work having introduced a block renewal scheme in your area to provide each property with an independant supply. We will charge a subsidised fixed rate of £450 (including VAT) per property for a standard renewal."

As AlanFP mentioned I'll see if I can speak to a Supervisor from the water company when their working in the road and give them a call to clarify some of the points.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks
Martin

Martin_UK

Hi all,

I spoke to a neighbor today who has had their survey. The water guy told them that the leak is up the road and they know where it is. However the old supply pipe runs through the back gardens of all the houses. The new supply pipe runs in the front of the houses and the £450 is to connect the houses to the new supply pipe as it isn't cost effective to repair the old one. Apparently it was supposed to cost £1,000 but the council declined to pay that for the council owned houses and negotiated the cost down to £450 which is also being charged to private tennants.

It looks like there isn't much choice, they aren't going to repair the old supply pipe and the only other option is to have an independant pipe to each house.

I'll see how it goes when I speak to the survey guy.

Regards
Martin