Pre 1993 copper 2p coins for investment?

listonosz

A collapse must come soon as the majority of the population are in huge debt so interest rates cannot go up, therefore savers are being wiped out,plus the people who are currently in work have to support the social security system which seems to be out of control other than that blue skies ahead!

smeagold

bendix wrote: »

What's scary is that you actually believe this. How old are you smeagold? Serious question. If find it incredibly sad to see someone disintegrating like this.

Tell me . . if you're so concerned about this, why do you allow your wife to go out and work to provide for you and your family? Does she get paid in gold or turnips, or in cash?

Do you remember the periods of double digit inflation in the early 1980s? Economic fortunes - unemployment, inflation, high and low growth - is cyclical. It's always been thus.

At the moment we are in a low inflation period heading into a higher period . . big deal. Been there, done that, got the teeshirt. I suppose i understand why some alarmists are worried, but I'm not. It's called having perspective.

The internet combined with too much time on your hands . . it's a dangerous combination for the gullible, don't you think?

:rotfl:go back to sleep, everything is ok

bendix

Well, it would have been nice to have an intelligent debate to get to the bottom of your irrational fears, but obviously that's not possible.

But I'll try again.

What exactly is different this time from every other period (usually every 7-8 years) in which inflation is rising? Make it easy for someone like me who is stupid and asleep to understand.

bendix

listonosz wrote: »

A collapse must come soon as the majority of the population are in huge debt so interest rates cannot go up, therefore savers are being wiped out,plus the people who are currently in work have to support the social security system which seems to be out of control other than that blue skies ahead!

Thanks for your excellent insights. Noone else has ever raised those before. You truly are a seer extraordinaire.

smeagold

bendix wrote: »

Well, it would have been nice to have an intelligent debate to get to the bottom of your irrational fears, but obviously that's not possible.

But I'll try again.

What exactly is different this time from every other period (usually every 7-8 years) in which inflation is rising? Make it easy for someone like me who is stupid and asleep to understand.

ok apologies. Its quite simple. Your right about cyclicality of course, the boom/ bust cycle of credit creation/contraction and its affects on inflation and IRs etc(that brown abolished) is common throughout history however now its far different than the 70s and 80s. (basically just on scale), in those periods we had credit creation and contraction, a boom followed by a bust.(malinvestments during the boom purged during the bust) while all the time the monetary base expanded, hence inflation even during busts.

Following the dotcom bust of 2000 we should have had a sharp recession, we didn't, the gov(mr brown) blew another bubble(housing) on unlimited credit and fraud(self cert, MBSs etc) vastly increasing the monetary base and building up unsustainable debt. The housing bubble bust, we should have had an extremely sharp recession far worse than what we had but the bubble has been re-inflated through QE, stimulus, low IRs etc again postponing the day of reckoning. Total UK gov liabilities(bank bailouts pensions social health etc) now exceed £4.5 till that 300% debt to gdp. this cannot be paid off. The only way out is to debase the currency, which is what is happening now, it cannot stop and will accelerate, there will always be negative real rates which means your money is being continually debased when priced in real things. (its a deliberate policy, thats why merv won't increase IRs)

To face a true cyclical bust now would destroy the economy, ( and by that i mean IRs returning to inflation levels, bankrupt banks being allowed to fail, the gov being honest and saying it can't afford the pensions and zero deficit spending) Instead we will have continued inflation, without end and sooner of later there will be a collapse as people lose faith in paper, that too is already happening, hence global commodity rises(swapping paper for assets).

The cyclical nature of credit has been destroyed, we've blown such a big bubble this time we cannot let it bust, money must be printed to cover the deficits, there's no other way out and that means your paper money will buy less and less as we go forward and thats why physical assets, which cannot be printed, will retain value and protect your savings

bendix

smeagold wrote: »

ok apologies. Its quite simple. Your right about cyclicality of course, the boom/ bust cycle of credit creation/contraction and its affects on inflation and IRs etc(that brown abolished) is common throughout history however now its far different than the 70s and 80s. (basically just on scale), in those periods we had credit creation and contraction, a boom followed by a bust.(malinvestments during the boom purged during the bust) while all the time the monetary base expanded, hence inflation even during busts.

Following the dotcom bust of 2000 we should have had a sharp recession, we didn't, the gov(mr brown) blew another bubble(housing) on unlimited credit and fraud(self cert, MBSs etc) vastly increasing the monetary base and building up unsustainable debt. The housing bubble bust, we should have had an extremely sharp recession far worse than what we had but the bubble has been re-inflated through QE, stimulus, low IRs etc again postponing the day of reckoning. Total UK gov liabilities(bank bailouts pensions social health etc) now exceed £4.5 till that 300% debt to gdp. this cannot be paid off. The only way out is to debase the currency, which is what is happening now, it cannot stop and will accelerate, there will always be negative real rates which means your money is being continually debased when priced in real things. (its a deliberate policy, thats why merv won't increase IRs)

To face a true cyclical bust now would destroy the economy, ( and by that i mean IRs returning to inflation levels, bankrupt banks being allowed to fail, the gov being honest and saying it can't afford the pensions and zero deficit spending) Instead we will have continued inflation, without end and sooner of later there will be a collapse as people lose faith in paper, that too is already happening, hence global commodity rises(swapping paper for assets).

The cyclical nature of credit has been destroyed, we've blown such a big bubble this time we cannot let it bust, money must be printed to cover the deficits, there's no other way out and that means your paper money will buy less and less as we go forward and thats why physical assets, which cannot be printed, will retain value and protect your savings

Oh well, I'm sure you're right.

Meanwhile I'm getting 7.3% on my cash savings which are held overseas in a currency that has appreciated around about 20% against the pound over the last 18 months, and I got around 40% on my share investments last year too.

There is no doubt some of the substance of your argument is right but I can't help coming back to the refrain I hear everytime there are developments like this: "Oh, but it's different this time."

It never is, smeagold. It never is.

Do I have my head in the sand? You will think so. I prefer to think of myself as a cynical realist.

I've done extremely well out of this so-called bust. I have no intention of staying in the UK for more than two more years, so any government deficit is of marginal interest to me. I earn in £ currently, but only my pension fund and (admittedly) a good chunk is in share funds in sterling currently, but those combined represent only a quarter of my net worth, and anyway most of the share funds are invested overseas so a weakening currency actually helps them. The rest is in assets and currencies in markets not affected at all by the UK's profligacy and financial mismanagement.

Excuse me for not being over-concerned and, certainly, not to the point where I consider a good weekend exercise is working out the copper value of coins fallen down the back of my sofa.

Life is too short.

smeagold

well done. many people tho havn't been so educted/smart/lucky or whatever and have little savings. but realise something is amiss and want to protect what little they have left through whatever means. congrats on saving well and having some foresight and success, not entirely sure why you attack my 'relative level of' success tho. Compared to some I'm very wealthy and to others very poor, but in the end its irrelevent as we're discussing economics and savings not how many more pounds I'm worth than you or vis-versa. as usual tho on whatever thread i start, on whatrever subject the discussion usually turns to attacking me personally. I often see that as the last defence of a lost argument.

darkpool

smeagold, i don't understand why someone that makes 18 to 24% a month is walking along the streets looking for pennies?

if you make invest a single pound and you get get 18% return a month it means after 10 years you have over £400,000,000. why you wasting your time looking for pennies?

Loughton_Monkey

darkpool wrote: »

smeagold, i don't understand why someone that makes 18 to 24% a month is walking along the streets looking for pennies?

if you make invest a single pound and you get get 18% return a month it means after 10 years you have over £400,000,000. why you wasting your time looking for pennies?

Yes. I perceive him as the 'tramp' in one of the Two Ronnies sketch:

Ronnie Barker: "If I were as rich as Paul Getty, I'd actually be richer."
Ronnie Corbett (confused): "How do you make that out then?"
Ronnie Barker: "'Cos I'd carry on cleaning windows."

IronWolf

lol, I just find it hilarious that it has now come to searching through penny jars with a magnet just to make an extra 20p