Forced to buy a second ticket

thescouselander

dzug1 wrote: »

What's difficult or unclear about * This ticket is only valid for travel on services via Banbury

That would be all very well except it seems you have to click a link to bring up that detail - it should be displayed prominently so the ticket buyer can see the restrictions immediately - not hidden behind other links.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

wealdroam wrote: »

Why?

Did you read that bit of the National Conditions of Carriage, that you quoted, which says...
It goes on to say that the excess is the difference between what has been paid and should've been paid for the route travelled.

Yes but as i said it shouldve been excessed up on the route into waterloo for the whole journey.. not just the second part of the journey which is why they have been charged for the single journey.. And how much would the excess via london have been?

pmm1981

The fares for this route are (with a 16-25 railcard)
Off Peak Return
£64.70 via + London (£98 without r/c)
£65.15 via Banbury (£98.70 without r/c)

Anytime Return
£115.50 via Banbury (£175 without r/c)
£233 via + London (£353 without r/c)

Euston-Lancaster Single
£50.50 off peak (£76.50 without r/c)
£95.35 anytime (£144.50 without r/c)

The OP is also lucky the train manager allowed them to use their railcard to buy ticket on the train.

So depending on the original ticket and the train caught from Euston maybe £50.50 was the cheapest option.

Livingthedream

Return tickets - change of route in one direction only
Half the difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

Using the above equation and with the fares provided by pmm1981 and assuming that the train manager went by the book ie No Railcard discount then;

£98 (route London) - £65 (Fare already paid) / 2 = £16.50 if Off peak train from Euston to Lancaster.

£233(route London) - £65 Fare already paid / 2 = £84 if Peak train from Euston to Lancaster.

So OP if your train was Off peak from London Euston then I would complain, however, if you caught a Peak train then you where lucky and saved yourself some money.

Again not the best with maths and equations so if I've got it wrong then I'm sorry.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

They have said it was an open return in the original post
And going by Pmms fares then it wouldve been this


Anytime Return
£115.50 via Banbury (£175 without r/c)
£233 via + London (£353 without r/c)
though so i dont think they actually know what sort of tickets they bought.. And an excess up to a via london ticket is a lot more then they paid

Livingthedream

Livingthedream wrote: »

Again not the best with maths and equations so if I've got it wrong then I'm sorry.

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

They have said it was an open return in the original post
And going by Pmms fares then it wouldve been this


Anytime Return
£115.50 via Banbury (£175 without r/c)
£233 via + London (£353 without r/c)
though so i dont think they actually know what sort of tickets they bought.. And an excess up to a via london ticket is a lot more then they paid

Lol, told you I wasn't good at maths, however, thought the cheaper Off peak fare would have been used in the equation if the OP travelled on an Off peak train?

bb21

Kua,

As some people have pointed out on here, we need to know exactly what ticket you held and exactly which train you caught from Euston in order to advise accordingly. Without these information it would pretty much be guess work as depending on your particular circumstance, it could have been cheaper to sell you a new ticket.

Would you mind uploading a scan of the tickets you have and the new one you were sold (blanking out anything you might think as sensitive)?

Also could you tell us which train you were on from Euston?

Livingthedream

OP, just to let you know this thread is now on the RailUK forum, hopefully between this forum's users and the good people over there we'll get the correct answer soon, but we do need your help.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41435

yorkie2

Mankysteve wrote: »

As you say you don't have a leg to stand on. It would have been on the terms when you booked the ticket.

Can you please tell me whether you feel your post was based on any knowledge on the subject in question, or did you just type this without thinking? Thank you

Livingthedream wrote: »

I think Virgin trains are in the wrong here, they should have excessed your ticket for travel 'via London' and not issued a new ticket.

Correct, unless the OP departed Euston before 0905, in which case selling a new ticket for the portion of the journey (London to either Rugby/Nuneaton or the first available stop not including MKC) is actually cheaper.

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

The OP simply didn't look at the terms of the ticket they were buying - their fault. No rights of refund or complaint.

They have every right to a refund or complaint IF they departed Euston at or after 0905.

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

You have to look at all the ticket options and can't simply assume you can return via a different route. If you travelled outbound via London (and I guess you didn't) then you would have been breaching the ticket conditions then too.

It's hardly a "breach of conditions"; the Conditions of Carriage states that you will be charged an excess if you do that, and the excess would be as little as 0p or 35p in this case, if the OP departed Euston at or after 0905.

spiro wrote: »

It may be that this applies in advance of travel i.e. at Winchester Station. Also there are a lot of new penatlies so maybe these regualtion have to superceeded by rules applied by individual companies i.e. on wrong time train so buy a full price single.

No company can over-rule the Conditions of Carriage other than where it states that they can for promotional tickets. No 'penalty' can be applied to travelling off-route or on a time-restricted ticket at an invalid time other than an appropriate excess. (This is not the same as a penalty but if the excess is high it could be perceived as one)

Tilt wrote: »

why? I thought you bought the ticket from thetrainline.com. In any event, I reckon you had an advance ticket which carry set terms. They can only be used on specific trains as per stated on the ticket or the journey print out.

Unless there is reason to believe the OP's claim that their ticket routed Banbury is incorrect, I suggest we take their word for it. In which case, the evidence suggests this was not an Advance ticket, surely?

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

To be honest if there was going to be any excess of a fare it should've happened on the leg to Waterloo - not on the leg from London..

The guard should have spotted it, yes, if the guard checked tickets after the point at which the route to Banbury deviated.

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

If you ticket is routed out side of London then you choose to take a journey from London its a whole new ticket.

No it isn't! Where do you get that from? The appropriate action is a change of route excess (calculated as half the difference between the appropriate fare and the fare paid).

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

Yes but as i said it shouldve been excessed up on the route into waterloo for the whole journey.. not just the second part of the journey which is why they have been charged for the single journey..

Not correct.

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

And how much would the excess via london have been?

If the OP departed Euston after 0905, then £0.00 or £0.35 depending on the ticket held.

If the OP departed Euston before 0905, then £89 or £127.15, depending on the ticket held. However if cheaper to sell a new ticket for the portion of the journey not covered by the original ticket then a new ticket should be sold. The first potential point would probably be Rugby, at £58.00.

NOTE: All the fares quoted above are without a Railcard

pmm1981 wrote: »

The OP is also lucky the train manager allowed them to use their railcard to buy ticket on the train..

Railcard discounts are permitted on board for change of route.

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

They have said it was an open return in the original post
And going by Pmms fares then it wouldve been this


Anytime Return
£115.50 via Banbury (£175 without r/c)
£233 via + London (£353 without r/c)
though so i dont think they actually know what sort of tickets they bought.. And an excess up to a via london ticket is a lot more then they paid

But "open return" in Thetrainline-speak just means a walk-on fare, not necessarily an SOR.

And your calculations are correct if the customer departed Euston before 0905, however we do not know the time of departure.

bb21 wrote: »

Kua,

As some people have pointed out on here, we need to know exactly what ticket you held and exactly which train you caught from Euston in order to advise accordingly. Without these information it would pretty much be guess work as depending on your particular circumstance, it could have been cheaper to sell you a new ticket.

Would you mind uploading a scan of the tickets you have and the new one you were sold (blanking out anything you might think as sensitive)?

Also could you tell us which train you were on from Euston?

Agreed! One of the few sensible posts here!

Livingthedream wrote: »

OP, just to let you know this thread is now on the RailUK forum, hopefully between this forum's users and the good people over there we'll get the correct answer soon, but we do need your help.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. There are many knowledgeable people on MSE who make this site the great site that it is, but sadly some not very knowledgeable people post things as if they were fact, that are in fact incorrect.

When an incorrect fact is posted, it should be challenged.

Wrong information can be worse than no information!

Kua

Just checked the confirmation email and actually it was stated pretty clearly that the return had to be through Banbury:

Journey Information

Getting your tickets: Self-Service Ticket Machine

Collection ref: 83NNG4KC

Tickets will be available to pick-up at LANCASTER station from any self-service ticket machines 2 hours after booking.
To collect your tickets, use the same payment card used to book your tickets and key in your collection reference. Journey 1: LANCASTER to WINCHESTER

Travel on Tuesday 08 February 2011

DepartsArrivesByReservations16:57 - lancaster18:31 - wolverhamptonTrain (VIRGIN TRAINS) Coach: A Seat: 11A
18:41 - wolverhampton21:24 - winchesterTrain (CROSSCOUNTRY) Coach: F Seat: 25A
Ticket details

Passengers: 1 Adult(s)
Ticket Type: OFF-PEAK RETURN
Route: This ticket is only valid for travel on services via Banbury
Railcards/Discounts: 16-25 RAILCARD You will need to show your railcard(s) at some point during your journey.

---

The ticket I bought instead I bought at a self-service machine after the Virgin dude told me there was no chance of me taking the route specified on my ticket at that time. It was from London Terminals to Lancaster.