Bully Tactics By Npower!

specialsparky

I wonder why Woodruffsdad is getting so excited, he has cheap power for a long time being charged for domestic when it should be business, think about all the extra VAT we taxpayers have lost. Mobile phone companies move you on and off tariffs when you come to the end of the term so why not power companies. Go and negotiate Woodruffsdad, just like you would with any other deal. You will have to have a contract with someone if you want good prices so just be happy you got away with it for so long.
Oh by the way how many times did you phone npower and say "you are only charging me 5% VAT and it should be the higher rate?...............yes I thought so!!

woodruffsdad_2

specialsparky wrote: »

I wonder why Woodruffsdad is getting so excited, he has cheap power for a long time being charged for domestic when it should be business, think about all the extra VAT we taxpayers have lost. Mobile phone companies move you on and off tariffs when you come to the end of the term so why not power companies. Go and negotiate Woodruffsdad, just like you would with any other deal. You will have to have a contract with someone if you want good prices so just be happy you got away with it for so long.
Oh by the way how many times did you phone npower and say "you are only charging me 5% VAT and it should be the higher rate?...............yes I thought so!!

Yet another apologist for giant corporations who squeeze the small business person!

We are a 3 man business running on a tight budget. We were paying domestic rate because that's how it was already set up by the landlord when we moved into our offices.

I still maintain that Npower's attitude is outrageous and I am letting the Energy Ombudsman deal with it!

backfoot

WoodruffsDad wrote: »

Here's an update.

After I complained to Npower (c.c. to Ofgem) they asked me to do a meter read which I did.

This morning a revised bill arrived for £600 more than the original bill making our total bill for 2 office rooms £1,800 for the quarter.

In my Inbox was also an email from Npower telling me that I could scrap that bill if I took out a contract and that I would be re-billed at standard contract rate.

This is blackmail of the first order despite what some Npower apologists have written on this forum.

We're going to have to bite the bullet and accept a contract but we'll be gone from Npower at a rapid rate of knots as soon as the new contract expires!

P.S. I have sent full details of the whole sorry affair to the Energy Ombudsman.

This is really confusing to me. By listing a few key points,perhaps you and others can help my understanding.

1. What changed to make your supply become business rather than domestic? You said in the first post it was at Npower's behest.

2. At that stage, you didn't understand that a Contract would govern the supply going forward?

3.Any further contract correspondence did not reach you. You didn't chase it or were unaware that a formal contract was needed.

4.In the absence of a formally signed contract from 18/10/10 the Supplier has moved to its default business rate.

5. The first bill you had was billed using estimated consumption.

6. The revised bill based on your meter reading brings the position more up to date and with accurate consumption details.

7. Npower are now offering you a contract backdated to 18/10/10 as if you had taken it out originally.

If I have understood this properly, it seems that you are in no worse a position, than at step 1.

If I have misunderstood anything, please correct me. I am not taking up any particular stance,simply trying to unravel it all.

I personally don't get why the rates charged to small businesses are so different to domestic but I suppose that is a different question.

dogshome

All this comment about letters sent, but not recieved is a Red Herring.
Business Utility contracts run at the very least for one year, and Woodruffsdad switched to a Business supply in August 2010 at n'powers behest

The very fact that since that time he has been charged "Out of Contract" rates, proves beyond doubt that N'power have never issued a contract, and I suspect that n'powers offer of "Sign here and we'll reduce the bill" indicates that n'power themselves realise they are on a sticky wicket.

woodruffsdad_2

backfoot wrote: »

This is really confusing to me. By listing a few key points,perhaps you and others can help my understanding.

1. What changed to make your supply become business rather than domestic? You said in the first post it was at Npower's behest.

2. At that stage, you didn't understand that a Contract would govern the supply going forward?

3.Any further contract correspondence did not reach you. You didn't chase it or were unaware that a formal contract was needed.

4.In the absence of a formally signed contract from 18/10/10 the Supplier has moved to its default business rate.

5. The first bill you had was billed using estimated consumption.

6. The revised bill based on your meter reading brings the position more up to date and with accurate consumption details.

7. Npower are now offering you a contract backdated to 18/10/10 as if you had taken it out originally.

If I have understood this properly, it seems that you are in no worse a position, than at step 1.

If I have misunderstood anything, please correct me. I am not taking up any particular stance,simply trying to unravel it all.

I personally don't get why the rates charged to small businesses are so different to domestic but I suppose that is a different question.

1) Npower contacted us and told us we were on domestic but should be on business,. We agreed and we have been billed as business users ever since.

2) When we agreed to go business we assumed that action instigated a new contract but evidently it didn't. Hence the mess!

backfoot

woodruffsdad wrote: »

1) Npower contacted us and told us we were on domestic but should be on business,. We agreed and we have been billed as business users ever since.

2) When we agreed to go business we assumed that action instigated a new contract but evidently it didn't. Hence the mess!

Yes but what instigated that change? Was it you starting up the business? Had you been operating it before on domestic rates? How did they find out?

Yes it's a mess but haven't they now conceded and are going to charge you a business tariff/contract as if you were on it all along?

It may not be the best rate, you could have found, but isn't it their normal business rate?

Can you explain what it is you want them to actually do?

woodruffsdad_2

backfoot wrote: »

Yes but what instigated that change? Was it you starting up the business? Had you been operating it before on domestic rates? How did they find out?

Yes it's a mess but haven't they now conceded and are going to charge you a business tariff/contract as if you were on it all along?

It may not be the best rate, you could have found, but isn't it their normal business rate?

Can you explain what it is you want them to actually do?

I have no idea what prompted Npower to tell us we were on the wrong tariff. We had been in the same premises for several years at the point they told us.

I want them to stop blackmailing me to retain business with them and allow me to switch supplier without burdening us with these outrageous charges.

Simples!

spiro

woodruffsdad wrote: »

I have no idea what prompted Npower to tell us we were on the wrong tariff. We had been in the same premises for several years at the point they told us.

Maybe you did not tell them that you were operating a business from the premises. As a customer you have an obligation to tell them.

backfoot

woodruffsdad wrote: »

I have no idea what prompted Npower to tell us we were on the wrong tariff. We had been in the same premises for several years at the point they told us.

I want them to stop blackmailing me to retain business with them and allow me to switch supplier without burdening us with these outrageous charges.

Simples!

I am trying to be constructive to get to the bottom of your problem but quite honestly, it doesn't help to be so angry with posters.

When you say blackmailing, it is pretty meaningless, unless you specify exactly how they are doing so. You had a sequence of events, which I tried to summarise for my understanding.I don't think you have corrected any of that summary.

In addition,it now seems you probably got away with lower charges for quite a period of time, including lower rate VAT. I've no idea whether they have recourse to recover any lost revenue. You have current consumption which has to be paid for and no other Supplier is involved.

One of the points you made was an extra £600 from a revised bill. It seems that was based on a firm reading up to a later date, albeit billed on their 'out of contract' rate as you put it. As 'dogshome' has indicated they probably accept that you weren't put onto a contract, and have now agreed a compromise of a 'lower' normal business rate.

What are those rates? Do they have a tariff/contract name? How do they compare with other published business tariffs?

If I were Ofgem, I would need more detail to be able to decide the validity of your ongoing complaint. Just saying blackmail doesn't take you very far imho.

What rate do you think they should bill you on for this past consumption? You have to appreciate that in any contract there are two parties and as you didn't seek to negotiate one with them,you may be on tricky ground.

You could of course,lay down your grievances succinctly in writing and make them an offer to settle to release you from any further dealings.

Or more simply,you can still leave and negotiate the best deal elsewhere.

You will have to do the overall sums, given the position you find yourself in.

backfoot

I thought I would get myself up to speed on the business/commercial market so discussed some of the specifics and the generalities of this case with someone involved closely in the Industry.

The key points put across to me are:

1.Don't ever let yourself get into an out of contract situation.The rates are always penal whoever the supplier.Apparently Southern are the worst.

2.Well negotiated Business contract rates should be cheaper than domestic rates.

3. Where correspondence goes astray for renewals or set up, Ofgem are useless and don't want to know.What can they say?

4. A supplier is unlikely to know the change of circumstance unless you tell them. As dometic rates are generally higher they aren't that bothered.

5. It's unlikely they will chase any backbilling.Too complex.

6. This sort of situation crops up a lot, but more to do with 'non renewed contracts'.

7. Differentials in price between suppliers is small for the smaller enterprises. The major objective is to gain your business early on and hope you will stay with them.

8. As I suggested from instinct,the best course of action is negotiation. This is hassle factor for them,and if you sign up for another year at a good rate,you can also negotiate a settlement for the past billing. Personally,I would be offering something like a half way house between the new contract rates agreed and the rate they currently propose.Use the leverage of the new Contract to persuade them to agree.

9.The dispute period is not long relatively.Move on and run your business with lower ongoing costs.


Good luck.