Zeitgeist: Moving forward

Wheezy_2

smeagold wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

2 million hits in under 2 weeks, not bad.

Not bad, but what's your point?
The 3 most watched Youtube movies are Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and Waka Waka :cool:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/top_10_youtube_videos_of_all_time.php

smeagold wrote: »

.... those with open/logical minds will recognise the truth and start preparing accordingly.

No, those with an open mind will query further, analyse data and look for alternative sources and views.
Here's one for starters: Zeitgeist debunked: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

StevieJ

Wheezy wrote: »

Not bad, but what's your point?
The 3 most watched Youtube movies are Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and Waka Waka :cool:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/top_10_youtube_videos_of_all_time.php



No, those with an open mind will query further, analyse data and look for alternative sources and views.
Here's one for starters: Zeitgeist debunked: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

What is interesting about that debunk is he used the very last bit of his conclusion to write this

So, the conclusion is, the film is 99.999% a complete lie, complete farce, made up garbage.
But hey, you don't have to believe me, I'm not the one making outrageous claims that religion is only meant to control you

I wouldn't have thought that the premise that religion is there to control you is controversial, because that is what it does. Christianity was popularised by the Roman rulers and Islamic mullahs only have to click their fingers, and you only have to look back to the Popes from the middle ages to see abuse of power. In addition Marx agreed and provided one of the most memorable quotes of the 19th century ' It is the Opium of the people'

Dell

I thought it was excellent.

I especially liked the last 10mins. Very good when it shows the future educating kids about the time period we live now.

smeagold

Its quite a film, challenging one might say. I enjoyed the psychology section for the first 40 mins. the economics part that comes later I know already. but the child development stuff was really interesting and at the same time disturbing. poses lots of questions. def an eye opener.

smeagold

Wheezy wrote: »

Not bad, but what's your point?
The 3 most watched Youtube movies are Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and Waka Waka :cool:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/top_10_youtube_videos_of_all_time.php



No, those with an open mind will query further, analyse data and look for alternative sources and views.
Here's one for starters: Zeitgeist debunked: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Thats a rather weak 'debunking' from an earlier 2008 zeitgeist release. I rather think people have intellect and understanding and can be trusted to make up their own minds about things. Obviously you think they shouldn't be trusted with evidence or logic and should be protected from challenging films and views. ie Don't watch this film as you might start believing things that arn't politically correct. watch the film read the 'debunks' and make up your own mind.

StevieJ

smeagold wrote: »

Thats a rather weak 'debunking' from an earlier 2008 zeitgeist release. I rather think people have intellect and understanding and can be trusted to make up their own minds about things. Obviously you think they shouldn't be trusted with evidence or logic and should be protected from challenging films and views. ie Don't watch this film as you might start believing things that arn't politically correct. watch the film read the 'debunks' and make up your own mind.

Just as a magician can apparently produce a rabit from a hat, so can a skillful film maker make you believe virtually anything with a clever blend of truths, half truths and lies. I wonder if all those experts knew what the film maker intended when they did their interviews, or was it like Caligula and the naughty bits added after the stars had done their bit:)

smeagold

StevieJ wrote: »

Just as a magician can apparently produce a rabit from a hat, so can a skillful film maker make you believe virtually anything with a clever blend of truths, half truths and lies. I wonder if all those experts knew what the film maker intended when they did their interviews, or was it like Caligula and the naughty bits added after the stars had done their bit:)

Very true but we hear the platitudes of endless growth and prosperity for all from the msm daily, whats so wrong with listening to an alternative viewpoint? If there's anything in the film that are lies or half truths then simply expose them. I'd be interested to hear your analysis/critique. did you even watch it before giving us the benefit of your wisdom?

Xiderpunk

Amazingly well put together argument. I think the vast majority know that our current system is extremely unjust, unsustainable and ultimately will destroy us. The proposition to have a different form of living (Venus project talked about in the film) is hard to deny that it would solve our problems. The difficulty comes in the transition.

First case it seems to me is the 'do nothing approach': Lets look in the short term. Global economy collapses, food shortages, massive starvation, civil disorder of a magnitude never before seen driven by food.. this is humanity going into survival mode and would spell pretty much the end of civilization.

Second case: Preparation for orderly transition. Governments spend vast sums of soon to be worthless money organizing localized food production. Home ownership is rescinded where all existing homes are put into a 'pot' and everyone gets homes according to need 'family size'/occupation and so on, no rent or mortgage. Government spends yet more vast sums of money to invest in alternative energy production.

Is that second case likely or even possible? I don't believe it is, for one thing the vast majority of us are conditioned into believing we 'need' and deserve the fruits of our labour over the years, our houses, cars, personal wealth. Giving it up goes against everything we have been brought up and walking away from it would be extremely hard. The more that wealth the harder it therefore becomes. Furthermore, everyone in the world would need to be prepared to do this.

It seems to me that therefore the 'haves' of this world we have created are handicapped by conditioning. Only the 'have nots' are in the position to force these changes, this means the students.

As painful as it would be, I think I would support such moves tacitly at first and probably actively as it picked up momentum.

julieq

Ah lovely, a return to marxist communism. Has ALWAYS worked beautifully where it's been tried too. It's not as if people who are just given the same whatever they do stop striving to improve their lives is it?

Gold's not going to be all that useful though, is it?

Xiderpunk

julieq wrote: »

Ah lovely, a return to marxist communism. Has ALWAYS worked beautifully where it's been tried too. It's not as if people who are just given the same whatever they do stop striving to improve their lives is it?

Gold's not going to be all that useful though, is it?

So the current system is working then and will ensure the future for our children and their children? Please enlighten me. You clearly have not watched the film if you believe this is marxism.

Bare in mind the important reality that our system kills many more people every year than Marxist communism ever did in total. People die because of lack of money. Not because the world doesn't produce enough food. We have enough money, I food shop at Marks & Sparks and can buy as much as I want let alone need. Is that wrong? Frankly yes.

So looking forward to hearing your answers to the problems of oil dependency, starvation, food production and equality within our current system, Julie.