Cutting off your nose to spite your face

FTBFun

Percy1983 wrote: »

But people wouldn't run a card over the limit if that happened.

Are you suggesting people wouldn't commit the crime because they might end up in prison?

I can see a flaw there somewhere.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.

I wouldn't think too hard when you consider the list of major enterprises that were started by a previously bankrupt person. Just think if Abaxas was in charge we may not have had the pleasure (plus wealth creation and jobs) of the Heinz empire, Disney, General Motors, Hershey, Ford motor corp, oh and Penthouse

tomterm8

Generali wrote: »

Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.

Lets face it, it snowed today in Blighty, a free trip to Australia is worth considering.

Percy1983 wrote: »

But people wouldn't run a card over the limit if that happened.

Er... people did go to debtors prison. And, at £40k a year for most prisons in the UK per place, it all sounds a little expensive.

ILW

StevieJ wrote: »

I wouldn't think too hard when you consider the list of major enterprises that were started by a previously bankrupt person. Just think if Abaxas was in charge we may not have had the pleasure (plus wealth creation and jobs) of the Heinz empire, Disney, General Motors, Hershey, Ford motor corp, oh and Penthouse

To your knowledge, did any of them pay back the creditors they had shafted when they did make good?

StevieJ

ILW wrote: »

To your knowledge, did any of them pay back the creditors they had shafted when they did make good?

No idea, but I suppose it depends if they saw the creditors as destroying their business or not.

ILW

StevieJ wrote: »

No idea, but I suppose it depends if they saw the creditors as destroying their business or not.

How can creditors destroy a business?

StevieJ

ILW wrote: »

How can creditors destroy a business?

Have you never heard of a bank calling in an overdraft, was it Bob Hope who said 'a bank will only lend you money if you prove you don't need it'.

Halifax has cancelled a customer’s overdraft without warning and then added bank charges because he was subsequently in the red.
And this is not an isolated incident. Users have complained on the MoneySavingExpert.com forum of Halifax and other banks cancelling overdrafts without notice, while they're overdrawn. In some cases, banks then add charges for supposedly being in arrears. Please report your story if it's happened to you.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/banking/2009/04/banks-caught-cancelling-overdrafts

mostlycheerful

lemonjelly wrote: »

I came across this ridiculous scenario yesterday:

As many of you know, I'm an advice worker. That will involve me, and/or colleagues advising on bankruptcy, amongst many other things.

Now, in order to apply to the court for bankruptcy, you have to apply on the prescribed forms. Produced by the Insolvency Service. They are 44 pages long.

You require 3 copies of these.

The guidance notes for completing the bankruptcy forms are approx 40 pages long.

Now, historically, & in line with the principles of access to justice, generally people have obtained these forms from the local County Court.

Over the past couple of weeks, colleagues & I have noticed a number of people contacting us for the forms. Many have said that they were told to by the County Court.

Someone I know rang the County Court to establish what is going on. They were advised that in order to save costs, the Insolvency Service has decided not to print bankruptcy forms any more. You want em, get em off their website & print em off.

This is, in my opinion, fu cking madness, and a real barrier to bankruptcy.

Where do you get these forms printed? Many people I see are not pc literate, & the vast majority do not have a pc at home.

So we're left with the library. Now, aside from the fact that libraries tend to charge 10p per sheet (so we are talking almost £20 for the forms & guidance alone), we will also be seeinf libraries closing due to funding cuts.

This is ridiculous! A barrier to bankruptcy (imo) & if I were exceedingly cynical I'd be arguing that it is a veiled attempt by the government to reduce the number of people applying for bankruptcy.

Oh, I just make my own up, I write them with a real original antique quill pen and real ink on some calf skin or squirrel leather or what have you. Or even on a bit of wood or bark if that's all we've got around at that moment. And we just add or subtract whatever terms and conditions and bollox that our customers require. So some of them are quite short, just half a page, some of them are loooong, wads of it, loads of it, tons of it all hanging out, the whole history of mankind in a great big fat tome. And for some of our customers who are illiterate and can't read and write we just do a thumb print in blood or if they haven't got any spare blood easily available or are squeamish about me lunging forward and grabbing their hand and biting a bit out of one of their fingers, whatever I can get hold of with my teeth in the melee, then sometimes, if they beg nicely and we like them, then we do the thumbprint stuff with whatever else comes to hand. My daughter suggested the tannin out of a teabag yesterday so as that was a good idea we used that.

At the end of the day it's all the same to you and me. Anyway, who cares, what's it all about. It's all about lurve, innit, baby. Oh, and cash and the wood spirits and whether god loves you.

Spiritedwolf

The_White_Horse wrote: »

the court service are correct. why should my tax go towards printing off forms for irresponsible people? let them pay for it - or better still, if i do have to pay for something out of my tax, let it be debtor's prison.

MSE doesn't seem to have a 'Thanks, but no thanks' button. It would come in useful here.

It's interesting that those who feel that business owners should take full responsibility for the risks they take, don't seem to apply the same logic to credit companies and banks who take the risk that some people won't repay the credit they take out.

abaxas wrote: »

I want capitalism with pain on failure. Short term prison / forced labour would be fine.

I'm sure that if someone is guilty of fraud (which includes running up debts that you have no intention of paying) they can go to prison at the moment, under current laws. I'm not sure about forced labour, but I'd imagine that's what it would feel like if you had your pay automatically docked from your employer to pay your creditor.

In other words, we already have these kinds of measures available, it just turns out, that most of the time, people with unmanageable debts weren't trying to commit fraud, they just got unlucky or overwhelmed.

ILW

Spiritedwolf wrote: »

It's interesting that those who feel that business owners should take full responsibility for the risks they take, don't seem to apply the same logic to credit companies and banks who take the risk that some people won't repay the credit they take out.



.

Trouble is that credit companies are restricted on the measures they are allowed to use to recover money owed to them. The fact that taking out debt without the means to repay is no longer an offence does not help.