Cutting off your nose to spite your face

abaxas

Generali wrote: »

Yes it is but it is also often (especially among businesses) an unfortunate but essential element of capitalism.

If a business borrows money in good faith to invest in the business and then is unable to repay there has to be a structure to allow the debts to be unwound.

If you want a society without bankruptcy then you have to have a society without capitalism as you can't have capitalism without capital.

I dont want that.

I want capitalism with pain on failure. Short term prison / forced labour would be fine.

blueboy43

abaxas wrote: »

I'm not arguing that people cant go bankrupt, just that they have a responsibility to that debt.

The issue is we are not allowed to force labour or take any financial 'justice' from the situation.

Bankruptcy is often used as a tool, rather than having any respectability for the original debt.

As well as abolishing limited liability, scrapping fractional reserve banking and reintroducing slavery (no doubt you would call it bonded labour) - what else is in the manifesto ?

Generali

abaxas wrote: »

I dont want that.

I want capitalism with pain on failure. Short term prison / forced labour would be fine.

If I go bust because I take a risk on starting a business you want me stuck in prison. I don't see how that improves anything. Can you enlighten me? There's clearly something I'm missing.

blueboy43

Generali wrote: »

If I go bust because I take a risk on starting a business you want me stuck in prison. I don't see how that improves anything. Can you enlighten me? There's clearly something I'm missing.

it has 2 effects;

1) you would be less likely to start a business
2) if in difficulty you may take further risks or illegal action on the "might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb basis"

If 2) we could send you to Australia.

abaxas

Generali wrote: »

If I go bust because I take a risk on starting a business you want me stuck in prison. I don't see how that improves anything. Can you enlighten me? There's clearly something I'm missing.

As you know the current fractional reserve system defines money as both a medium of interchange and the sale of future labour/commodity.

By definition if you default on your future labour, someone else has to fill in that gap.

Without inflation/greater sale of future labour we simply dont have any financial system at all.

Generali

abaxas wrote: »

As you know the current fractional reserve system defines money as both a medium of interchange and the sale of future labour/commodity.

By definition if you default on your future labour, someone else has to fill in that gap.

Without inflation/greater sale of future labour we simply dont have any financial system at all.

Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.

abaxas

Generali wrote: »

Interesting. I'll have to think about this one.

Great,

I was expecting the usual MSE, my head exploded and you are wrong line.

Happy to discuss further, and if I'm wrong, happy to learn someone new.

StevieJ

abaxas wrote: »

I dont want that.

I want capitalism with pain on failure. Short term prison / forced labour would be fine.

This is the character that Dev and Badger thought I was stripping their arguments of context, indeed execrably so . I think we know where the land lies with this one :eek:

abaxas

StevieJ wrote: »

This is the character that Dev and Badger thought I was stripping their arguments of context, indeed execrably so . I think we know where the land lies with this one :eek:

Then I'm just a utopian socialist at heart

Happy to help the people who toil in servitude to the defaulters.

StevieJ

abaxas wrote: »

Then I'm just a utopian socialist at heart

Happy to help the people who toil in servitude to the defaulters.