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Cutting off your nose to spite your face
lemonjelly
Posts: 8,014 Forumite
I came across this ridiculous scenario yesterday:
As many of you know, I'm an advice worker. That will involve me, and/or colleagues advising on bankruptcy, amongst many other things.
Now, in order to apply to the court for bankruptcy, you have to apply on the prescribed forms. Produced by the Insolvency Service. They are 44 pages long.
You require 3 copies of these.
The guidance notes for completing the bankruptcy forms are approx 40 pages long.
Now, historically, & in line with the principles of access to justice, generally people have obtained these forms from the local County Court.
Over the past couple of weeks, colleagues & I have noticed a number of people contacting us for the forms. Many have said that they were told to by the County Court.
Someone I know rang the County Court to establish what is going on. They were advised that in order to save costs, the Insolvency Service has decided not to print bankruptcy forms any more. You want em, get em off their website & print em off.
This is, in my opinion, fu cking madness, and a real barrier to bankruptcy.
Where do you get these forms printed? Many people I see are not pc literate, & the vast majority do not have a pc at home.
So we're left with the library. Now, aside from the fact that libraries tend to charge 10p per sheet (so we are talking almost £20 for the forms & guidance alone), we will also be seeinf libraries closing due to funding cuts.
This is ridiculous! A barrier to bankruptcy (imo) & if I were exceedingly cynical I'd be arguing that it is a veiled attempt by the government to reduce the number of people applying for bankruptcy.
As many of you know, I'm an advice worker. That will involve me, and/or colleagues advising on bankruptcy, amongst many other things.
Now, in order to apply to the court for bankruptcy, you have to apply on the prescribed forms. Produced by the Insolvency Service. They are 44 pages long.
You require 3 copies of these.
The guidance notes for completing the bankruptcy forms are approx 40 pages long.
Now, historically, & in line with the principles of access to justice, generally people have obtained these forms from the local County Court.
Over the past couple of weeks, colleagues & I have noticed a number of people contacting us for the forms. Many have said that they were told to by the County Court.
Someone I know rang the County Court to establish what is going on. They were advised that in order to save costs, the Insolvency Service has decided not to print bankruptcy forms any more. You want em, get em off their website & print em off.
This is, in my opinion, fu cking madness, and a real barrier to bankruptcy.
Where do you get these forms printed? Many people I see are not pc literate, & the vast majority do not have a pc at home.
So we're left with the library. Now, aside from the fact that libraries tend to charge 10p per sheet (so we are talking almost £20 for the forms & guidance alone), we will also be seeinf libraries closing due to funding cuts.
This is ridiculous! A barrier to bankruptcy (imo) & if I were exceedingly cynical I'd be arguing that it is a veiled attempt by the government to reduce the number of people applying for bankruptcy.
It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.
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Comments
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I am off to setup and ebay shop!
It does sound interesting, I suppose it depends if you know anybody with a printer/computer aswell, I would guess many could ask a friend/relative nicely.
With that maybe if shouldn't be easy to go bankrupt or maybe your should face prison, but that is another debate.Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
Started third business 25/06/2016
Son born 13/09/2015
Started a second business 03/08/2013
Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/20120 -
I am off to setup and ebay shop!
It does sound interesting, I suppose it depends if you know anybody with a printer/computer aswell, I would guess many could ask a friend/relative nicely.
With that maybe if shouldn't be easy to go bankrupt or maybe your should face prison, but that is another debate.
People should have access to the law, it is a basic principal of justice. Remember, these forms cut both ways... creditors have to fill them out to make someone bankrupt.lemonjelly wrote: »This is ridiculous! A barrier to bankruptcy (imo) & if I were exceedingly cynical I'd be arguing that it is a veiled attempt by the government to reduce the number of people applying for bankruptcy.
I don't know exactly where you work, but wouldn't a fine old social engineering letter to the head of the insolvency service, written by a lawyer, go some ways to potentially correcting the issue?“The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens0 -
Can you not print them for the client?
We do this in the NHS, which costs private contractors money.0 -
Now I could see a case if they were trying to encourage the forms to be completed online and avoid printed copies at all - but I kind of suspect this is not the case.
Reminds me of the Royal Mint's plan to save costs by reducing the amount of expensive metals in coins - it will save the mint about 8 million or something but cost the vending industry 20x as much to recalibrate all their machines - madness.I think....0 -
Now I could see a case if they were trying to encourage the forms to be completed online and avoid printed copies at all - but I kind of suspect this is not the case.
Reminds me of the Royal Mint's plan to save costs by reducing the amount of expensive metals in coins - it will save the mint about 8 million or something but cost the vending industry 20x as much to recalibrate all their machines - madness.
Er as far as I know you can't fill them in online, they need a court seal. You can do an IVA online.“The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens0 -
People should have access to the law, it is a basic principal of justice. Remember, these forms cut both ways... creditors have to fill them out to make someone bankrupt.
I don't know exactly where you work, but wouldn't a fine old social engineering letter to the head of the insolvency service, written by a lawyer, go some ways to potentially correcting the issue?
Where I work, we don't have a solicitor tomterm8.
& apparently this is an Insolvency Service policy decision - to save money, no more forms. The Couty Court always got them from the Insolvency Service, & they are being told "No".
Oh, & I forgot to mention courts are closing too....Er as far as I know you can't fill them in online, they need a court seal. You can do an IVA online.
A trained & accredited practitioner can do Debt Relief Orders online, but joe public can't.
You are right, as you have to apply to the court to declare you bankrupt.It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Can you not print them for the client?
We do this in the NHS, which costs private contractors money.
I work in the education sector Graham. We're being told to cut costs.;)It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
Lj we're seeing this all the time in libraries. Not just bankruptcy but a whole raft of complicated and multiple page forms. I can also confirm that many libraries charge more than 10p per page for printing and that's a lot of money to someone printing out a form that's 50-80 pages long.
Incidentally, I've seen the same scenario as bankruptcy forms with DLA and housing benefit too. Also the Job Centre regularly send people over to do all of their application work so that they don't incur charges.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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Has to be a good thing, fewer people going bankrupt. happy days are here again.0
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Why not invest the money saved in stocks and rotten tomatoes.
Job done.0
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