Shameless labour

Flyboy152

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

Because most voters think it is.

Not a difficult concept, democracy.

That is a bit of a paradox there. First of all, it is the right who are insisting that the private sector needs a disproportionate amount of help, whilst on one hand the Tories are creating one million more unemployed and therfore creating a dependency on the state. Where on the other hand they put pressure on the private sector to employ them. The private sector cannot cope with such an influx of jobs, so offer far lower wages, those wages need subsidising by the state in order for people to be able to afford to feed themselves. Those who voted for the Tories, voted for less state intervention, but are now looking to that very same body to bail them out.

IronWolf

Flyboy152 wrote: »

So, it was the Tories that created the culture of the huge financial service's excesses, but it was Labour's fault for not stopping it? That's a bit like a bank robber saying, "I robbed the bank, because there was no guards on duty."

No, there was no culture of huge financial excess when Thatcher restructured the economy, all that happened under Labour, the tripling of house prices, the debt secured on these overvalued assets, that had nothing to do with the conservatives.

And the conservatives would have allowed those excessive bankers to go under and pay dearly for their mistakes, whereas Labour just transfered responsibility to the tax payer.

michaels

During the campaign Clown was persuaded that the voters were not buying the 'everything is going to be all right just let us carry on spending our way out of trouble' line (tbh it was nuanced, Brown was using this line to core supporters whilst Darling was telling the economically literate that Labour would be cutting). At the time it appeared that there was a disagreement between Balls and Campbell over this change in tactics and Campbell won and Labour went on to loose.

Now it appears that Milliband has decided to go with Balls and return to the 'we can spend our way out of trouble' line - I guess this time without being in power and with no danger of that for a while there is nothing to stop them peddling this treacle to a population who are starting to understand what the suffering that was promised by both parties is actually going to feel like.

Yes it is opportunism and no it would not increase the odds of me voting for them but no doubt focus groups are demonstrating that it is a popular line and so the labour spinsters will be here and everywhere else trying to in-still it in to the common Zeitgeist that the Tories stand for cuts whereas Labour stand for more spending for everyone.

No point objecting, they are only doing their job.

Wookster

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Earn what?

The initial poster said the economy was funded by debt. Therefore, following the posters argument, the money earned by a majority of business in the UK is in fact that debt.

Nothing to do with envy & more to do with the realisation of where the money in everyones pockets came from. Its a simple fact. Obviously too simple for some to grasp.

Three questions.

Who was in charge when debt ballooned?
How is that party proposing to sort it out now? (Hint: yet more debt)
Can you see the problem?

Sir_Humphrey

IronWolf wrote: »

And the conservatives would have allowed those excessive bankers to go under and pay dearly for their mistakes, whereas Labour just transfered responsibility to the tax payer.

If you believe that, you'd believe anything.

Flyboy152

IronWolf wrote: »

No, there was no culture of huge financial excess when Thatcher restructured the economy, all that happened under Labour, the tripling of house prices, the debt secured on these overvalued assets, that had nothing to do with the conservatives.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. House prices quadrupled under Thatcher and then collapsed spectacualrly under Major. The conservatives under Thatcher invented the concept of money wins everything.

And the conservatives would have allowed those excessive bankers to go under and pay dearly for their mistakes, whereas Labour just transfered responsibility to the tax payer.

Give as idea of how the economy would have looked today, if the banks had not have been bailed out.

Graham_Devon

To be honest, I'm a little bored of labour blaming the tories, tories blaming labour, and every man and his dog slagging off the lib dems.

One thing I do wish, is that Labour would just stop attacking absolutely everything without any justification of what they would do themselves. Ed Balls was on the radio agian this morning....same old attack, so the question "what would you do".

Ed: Well we set out a plan to cut x amount over x years, unlike the tories who are just slamming the brakes on.
Presenter: But how would you do it
Ed: We set out plans, we were on target, we didnt do everything right but slamming the brakes on is the wrong way to go about things.
Presenter: Yes, but how would you do it
Ed: By two measures, we had set out plans, but look, if you slam the brakes on you are going to halt any recovery and send the country back into recession, its what we have been saying.
Presenter: So you can't tell me how you would do it
Ed: As I said, we had drawn out plans which didn't include raising taxes and cutting spending as the coalition are doing and slamming the brakes on growth.
Presenter: What about the 50p tax rate

And so on...Yawn.

Graham_Devon

Oh and one other thing, as I see it's plastered all over this thread too.

You cannot blame the coalition for the current GDP figures (for the last 6 months).

We are still working on labour policy. The coalition did not change things the day they entered number 10. Tax didn't go up across the board within a month of them gaining power. Cuts didnt happen within 10 days of them taking power. They set out plans to change things, such as the VAT hike, on 4th Jan. Such as reductions in spending in 2011.

2010 spending and cuts were already planned out by labour.

I do wish labour people would stop lambasting the coalition (or mainly the tories) for something LABOUR set out, the results we are seeing is from LABOURS path, which we were STILL on.

Lambast them when we have figures for periods when their own policies were in place, rather than lambasting them for your own parties planned route.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

To be honest, I'm a little bored of labour blaming the tories, tories blaming labour, and every man and his dog slagging off the lib dems.

One thing I do wish, is that Labour would just stop attacking absolutely everything without any justification of what they would do themselves. Ed Balls was on the radio agian this morning....same old attack, so the question "what would you do".

Ed: Well we set out a plan to cut x amount over x years, unlike the tories who are just slamming the brakes on.
Presenter: But how would you do it
Ed: We set out plans, we were on target, we didnt do everything right but slamming the brakes on is the wrong way to go about things.
Presenter: Yes, but how would you do it
Ed: By two measures, we had set out plans, but look, if you slam the brakes on you are going to halt any recovery and send the country back into recession, its what we have been saying.
Presenter: So you can't tell me how you would do it
Ed: As I said, we had drawn out plans which didn't include raising taxes and cutting spending as the coalition are doing and slamming the brakes on growth.
Presenter: What about the 50p tax rate

And so on...Yawn.

I refer you to Prime Ministers Questions on right now & Ed pointing out (quite rightly) that the PM has been going about everywhere for the last 2 months saying we are out of the danger zone. Cameron even told the HP of that fact.

2 things you can get from that.


1: Cameron & Co are foolish politicians

2: Cameron & Co haven't got a clue

Simples.

ninky_2

out of interest, how long do people think it will be before the coalition can't blame the last labour government? 1 year? or a decade? presumably if there is a recovery then it will also be due to "the last labour government"...or is it just the bad things that are their fault?