Help please - rent arrears, how to get tenant out?

tbs624

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

You can be eight weeks in arrears in one month and one day if the rent is due calender-monthly in advance.

Rent *unpaid*........

vaporate

babydoo10 wrote: »

Hi all,

Firstly, I've had a look through the forums but there is sooo much on there about section 8's and all that jazz that I'm getting in a muddle - and it's not even really my problem as such!

So, story as follows!

My brother moved in with his GF at her house so rented his own house out to a couple in Jan 2010 on an AST for 6 months then a month on month basis afterwards.

It was issued to both peoples names - but 'he' moved out in the latter part of last year when they split up.

Subsequently 'she' has fallen behind with the rent and owes approx £800 (the rent is £475 a month)

My brother has to be the worlds cr4ppiest LL as he didn't take either a deposit, or a months rent in advance, or an inventory of items left in the house 'as they seemed like a nice couple' ... (where's the 'roll eyes' emoticon?!!!)

He just wanted someone to move in asap, and they were the first to show interest in it.

On the 5th Jan he served her with a 30 day notice to quit (having also done this in Sept but then 'letting her stay as she promised to pay the arrears' (rolleyes again)

She has sought some advice from somewhere and has been told that the 30 day notice is worthless.

In addition, my dear dopey brother has just read his mortgage paperwork (as he's looking to put the house on the market soon) and realised that he isn't supposed to rent it out as it's shared ownership...

And to top it off he was going to allow his daughter to move in until it sells and she has all her stuff boxed up and is expecting to move back in on the day after the 30 day notice is up (4th Feb-ish)

So, my questions are:

1) Is the 30 day notice worthless?

2) If so, now what does he need to do?

3) How much notice does he need to give her now he knows he shouldn't even be renting it?

4) Is the TA invalid being as he moved out and she didn't inform my brother, thus breaking the terms of the agreement?


She is being a real awkward mare about all this too - saying she isn't going to move etc in one breath and then the next she goes all 'please let me stay, I'll find the money I owe' (From where?...)

I also know that she is in piles of debt as her ex is a mutual friend and she owes money to all and sundry. She evens gets housing benefit for the rent but has it paid straight to her, which my brother cannot get altered, so she gets the rent paid and then spends it.

She has enough money to be able to afford plenty of alcohol (I work in the local shop and believe me, the woman has a drink problem and is often seen staggering about the area) but obviously doesn't give a stuff about the fact that my brother is struggling to make ends meet by having to fork out £475 a month to pay his mortgage in addition to paying his share of bills at his gf's house.

(If you do the maths you'll also see that my dopey brother doesn't even make a single penny out of renting either - he rents for £475 a month - the same cost as his mortgage - and was even including the CT bill in the rent at the beginning until I kicked a5s about it! (yep, there's the 'rolleyes' again...!)

Obviously, he's been gullible and naive and knows it now, but this is making him stressed and also skint every month as he still has to contribute towards his girlfriends mortgage and bills. He was only trying to make sure the house was paid for so that he could keep it as an investment for his daughters futures but now has no choice but to sell it as the stress is too much (and he's a cr4p LL!)

I'm a bit more hardfaced than him and I'm all set to turn off her gas and water in the street, and (after giving the required 24 hours notice) go in and remove all the electricity fuses from the fuseboard as they belong to my brother (or I suppose, the mortgage company, to be pedantic!), and generally try to make things as uncomfortable for her as poss so she has to go, as she is seriously taking the p155. Not the wisest idea probably, but when it's my family being taken for a ride I don't do sensible well!

I've 4 people lined up ready to turf her and her belongings out on 4th Feb if she isn't gone! (Without violence though - I'm not gonna batter the woman or owt!)

This bl00dy woman has had chance after chance to pay the arrears and keeps promising that she will pay and every time she just doesn't bother. I just wish she'd s0d off with dignity - the woman is 61 years old !!!!!! - where's her pride?!!! She aint staying, so accept it! Grrrrrr!!! :mad:

So guys, advice please? Thanks for any help - sensible or otherwise!

maybe your brother should pay his own damn mortgage then lol ha.:rotfl:

tbs624

OP -as theothers have said much of what you have suggested as ways of dealing with this T are likely to land you/ your brother with a crim record with a potential civil case by the T, as an add-on.

Have a look on this Board for a thread called Evict a Rogue LL and you'll find a number of court cases on illegal eviction/tenant harassment etc.

You need to check the date of the expiry of that original Fixed Term. The rent period of the subsequent "statutory periodic agreement" runs from the day after that - so say ast finished 5th of the month , each subsequent rental period runs from 5th of one month to the 4th of the next. Your S21 Notice needs to be timed to allow for a full two months to elapse. Note that a S21 is not a notice to quit - it is merely a notice that the LL wants repossession after the expiry date of that second calendar month. If the T stays put you need to proceed to obtain a court order, so the fenale relative wanting to move in is likely to have to hang around for a bit longer.

A S8 Notice can use three grounds -8, 10 and 11- when there are rent issues. G8 is mandatory and the other two are discretionary. As someone else has mentioned a G8 requires there to be 2 months rent unpaid both at the time of application to the court and at the actual court hearing. Most advisers will of course tell a T to pay their debt down prior to the hearing to defeat the G8. The discretionary grounds are :

Ground 10

Some rent lawfully due from the tenant—

(a)is unpaid on the date on which the proceedings for possession are begun; and

(b)except where subsection (1)(b) of section 8 of this Act applies, was in arrears at the date of the service of the notice under that section relating to those proceedings.

Ground 11

Whether or not any rent is in arrears on the date on which proceedings for possession are begun, the tenant has persistently delayed paying rent which has become lawfully due.relate to persistent late payment of rent.

Your brother should serve the S21 as a start and write to the Ts ( as they will have joint & several liability if they are both signed to the one contract) enclosing a Formal Rent Statement and invite them to bring their account up to date. Tell them that you will be sending a copy of the RS to the LHA office. If a lack of favourable response then it's S8 time.

Your brother has effectively shot himself in the foot by not having an inventory or a deposit. He needs to be able to show what was in the property, and what condition both the F&F and the actual house were at the start of the tenancy, if he wanted to bring any proceedings against the T. That said, with a T who is on benefits, even if he had been able to get a judgement the likelihood of actually getting that judgement enforced would probably be more hassle than it would be worth.

Has he declared his rental income to the tax man yet ? The income from Jan 2010 to start of April 2010 is due to be declared no later than the end of this month.

You say that your brother should not have been letting in the first place, which may mean that raising his head above the parapet to deal with this T may backfire on him.

He/you may decide that the best bet is to pay to use one of the "LL assistance" firms who deal with all the paperwork in the proper way.

babydoo10

vaporate wrote: »

maybe your brother should pay his own damn mortgage then lol ha.:rotfl:

Erm, he does - that's what I said. The rent isn't being paid so he is having to find an additional £475 a month to prevent mortgage arrears, in addition to paying half of the mortgage and bills at his girlfriends house.

Thanks for all the useful answers so far though - just to clarify - she DOES owe over 8 weeks rent - about 10 weeks to be precise, as of about 3 days ago.

Also, a couple of posts have mentioned the failure to declare his rental income to the taxman. Does still still apply even though he doesn't gain financially from this? The mortgage is £475 and the rent is the same. He was never out to make money from renting - just to stop the mortgage going t1ts up!

Never gonna be a millionaire with that strategy eh?! :rotfl:

Thanks again

Olga_da_Polga

The calculation of profit = rent (475) - mortgage (475) = 0 is wrong, assuming this is a normal repayment mortgage

It's only the interest element of the mortgage payment that counts as a deduction from the rent to calculate profit, not the capital repayment. There are other costs you can deduct eg landlord's insurance, but I'm not so sure which costs you can deduct - others may know more.

So yes he may well have a rental profit to be taxed on...

RAS

babydoo10 wrote: »

Thanks for all the useful answers so far though - just to clarify - she DOES owe over 8 weeks rent - about 10 weeks to be precise, as of about 3 days ago.

So he now needs to contact the Council and ask for the rent to be paid directly to him.

With respect to the HMRC, he needs to make a return, even if the net income is nil, he needs to prove this to them.

RAS

With respect to the good in the hosue, without a dually signed inventory, he cannot prove what he provided to the tenant.

He needs to get someone competant to help him issue a section 8 notice for non-payment of rent, in the names of both tenants (assuming they are both on the original agreement).

So expect it to be up to 4 months before he gets them out.

bitsandpieces

Sounds like your brother needs professional advice.

The only way you're going to legally get the tenant out by early Feb is if she moves out willingly. If you get LHA paid directly to landlord, she will have less cash in hand and your brother will get some money. A risky strategy your brother could try is to write to the tenant and offer her money if she moves out of her own volition: e.g. he could offer to write off arrears and give her some cash towards costs of moving to a new place. Quite possible that this will just inflame the situation, though. Professional advice would be a good idea either way (and section 8 etc. should be issued whether or not he tries this).

Ulfar

I wouldn't even bother with a section 8 it is to easy for the tenant to counter, just issue the section 21 and then proceed to court if they don't leave.

As for the being 8 weeks in arrears to enable LHA to be paid to you isn't LHA paid in arrears irrespective of how you would like payment.

babydoo10

Thanks so much for the advice which I have passed on to my brother. He is going to do the legal thang from today and hopefully this horrible woman will soon be gone.

Things took a sour turn yesterday after he (after being given permission and notice) went inside the house to inspect it. She left him looking around the lounge and she went into the kitchen. All seemed fine until the Police came round later to say that she has accused him of breaking her cooker, computer and fridge! I don't know what she's done but it seems like she has sabotaged something (or they were already broken) and she is now trying to get money from him to get the items fixed!

The WPC was lovely (and an ex landlord so she understood our frustration) and she seemed to believe that the witch was lying. But my brother then got an email from some housing advice service that this woman is signed up with to say that as the cooker and fridge are his, he is responsible for paying to get them fixed! Is she for real? She owes him over £1,000, breaks the equipment that he kindly left in the property for her to use and then tries to get replacements!

Angry much?... :mad: