Help please - rent arrears, how to get tenant out?

babydoo10

Hi all,

Firstly, I've had a look through the forums but there is sooo much on there about section 8's and all that jazz that I'm getting in a muddle - and it's not even really my problem as such!

So, story as follows!

My brother moved in with his GF at her house so rented his own house out to a couple in Jan 2010 on an AST for 6 months then a month on month basis afterwards.

It was issued to both peoples names - but 'he' moved out in the latter part of last year when they split up.

Subsequently 'she' has fallen behind with the rent and owes approx £800 (the rent is £475 a month)

My brother has to be the worlds cr4ppiest LL as he didn't take either a deposit, or a months rent in advance, or an inventory of items left in the house 'as they seemed like a nice couple' ... (where's the 'roll eyes' emoticon?!!!)

He just wanted someone to move in asap, and they were the first to show interest in it.

On the 5th Jan he served her with a 30 day notice to quit (having also done this in Sept but then 'letting her stay as she promised to pay the arrears' (rolleyes again)

She has sought some advice from somewhere and has been told that the 30 day notice is worthless.

In addition, my dear dopey brother has just read his mortgage paperwork (as he's looking to put the house on the market soon) and realised that he isn't supposed to rent it out as it's shared ownership...

And to top it off he was going to allow his daughter to move in until it sells and she has all her stuff boxed up and is expecting to move back in on the day after the 30 day notice is up (4th Feb-ish)

So, my questions are:

1) Is the 30 day notice worthless?

2) If so, now what does he need to do?

3) How much notice does he need to give her now he knows he shouldn't even be renting it?

4) Is the TA invalid being as he moved out and she didn't inform my brother, thus breaking the terms of the agreement?


She is being a real awkward mare about all this too - saying she isn't going to move etc in one breath and then the next she goes all 'please let me stay, I'll find the money I owe' (From where?...)

I also know that she is in piles of debt as her ex is a mutual friend and she owes money to all and sundry. She evens gets housing benefit for the rent but has it paid straight to her, which my brother cannot get altered, so she gets the rent paid and then spends it.

She has enough money to be able to afford plenty of alcohol (I work in the local shop and believe me, the woman has a drink problem and is often seen staggering about the area) but obviously doesn't give a stuff about the fact that my brother is struggling to make ends meet by having to fork out £475 a month to pay his mortgage in addition to paying his share of bills at his gf's house.

(If you do the maths you'll also see that my dopey brother doesn't even make a single penny out of renting either - he rents for £475 a month - the same cost as his mortgage - and was even including the CT bill in the rent at the beginning until I kicked a5s about it! (yep, there's the 'rolleyes' again...!)

Obviously, he's been gullible and naive and knows it now, but this is making him stressed and also skint every month as he still has to contribute towards his girlfriends mortgage and bills. He was only trying to make sure the house was paid for so that he could keep it as an investment for his daughters futures but now has no choice but to sell it as the stress is too much (and he's a cr4p LL!)

I'm a bit more hardfaced than him and I'm all set to turn off her gas and water in the street, and (after giving the required 24 hours notice) go in and remove all the electricity fuses from the fuseboard as they belong to my brother (or I suppose, the mortgage company, to be pedantic!), and generally try to make things as uncomfortable for her as poss so she has to go, as she is seriously taking the p155. Not the wisest idea probably, but when it's my family being taken for a ride I don't do sensible well!

I've 4 people lined up ready to turf her and her belongings out on 4th Feb if she isn't gone! (Without violence though - I'm not gonna batter the woman or owt!)

This bl00dy woman has had chance after chance to pay the arrears and keeps promising that she will pay and every time she just doesn't bother. I just wish she'd s0d off with dignity - the woman is 61 years old !!!!!! - where's her pride?!!! She aint staying, so accept it! Grrrrrr!!! :mad:

So guys, advice please? Thanks for any help - sensible or otherwise!

babydoo10

BTW, there are no insults intended towards anyone with drink probs or debts in my post - both my parents were alcoholics many years ago and therefore I've lived with debt all my life, but this is strictly business IMHO and there isn't a place for sympathy in it

BitterAndTwisted

babydoo10 wrote: »

So, my questions are:

1) Is the 30 day notice worthless? Yes, it is.

2) If so, now what does he need to do? Serve both a Section 21 Notice giving them (both of the parties named on the tenancy agreement, not just the person resident) at least two month's notice and a Section 8 (for non-payment of the rent). The two month's notice will depend on the exact dates on the tenancy agreement. Getting these wrong will cause the S21 to fail in court. The Section 8 may also fail should the tenant pay up the arrears so that there is less than two m onths owing on the court date.

3) How much notice does he need to give her now he knows he shouldn't even be renting it? At least two calender months.

4) Is the TA invalid being as he moved out and she didn't inform my brother, thus breaking the terms of the agreement? No. Both parties remain liable but one person no longer living in the property would not render the agreement invalid.

This is a fine old mess, as you have already realised. Under the circumstances I think your brother's best strategy would be to instruct a professional to ensure the correct documents are sered correctly.

Let's hope the lender doesn't find out or the other party in the shared equity deal either or this could turn into even more !!!!!! than it is already. Especially if he's not declaring the income from rent on his tax-return!

BitterAndTwisted

babydoo10 wrote: »

I'm a bit more hardfaced than him and I'm all set to turn off her gas and water in the street, and (after giving the required 24 hours notice) go in and remove all the electricity fuses from the fuseboard as they belong to my brother (or I suppose, the mortgage company, to be pedantic!), and generally try to make things as uncomfortable for her as poss so she has to go, as she is seriously taking the p155. Not the wisest idea probably, but when it's my family being taken for a ride I don't do sensible well!

I've 4 people lined up ready to turf her and her belongings out on 4th Feb if she isn't gone! (Without violence though - I'm not gonna batter the woman or owt!)

I'm sure you're enjoying the thought of turfing this alki chancer out on the streets but if you enter the property or do any of the things you have described you could risk a prison sentence. And would probably deserve one. I would advise not doing anything remotely like that in the strongest terms possible.

steveM1978

There is no income, as far as I can see. I would go ahead and turn the water and gas off personally. Do you have Keys? she is invoking a squatters right i suppose and call me primitive but two can play that game, wait untill she is out go in and change the locks. leave it at that as phase 1

CloudCuckooLand

steveM1978 wrote: »

There is no income, as far as I can see. I would go ahead and turn the water and gas off personally. Do you have Keys? she is invoking a squatters right i suppose and call me primitive but two can play that game, wait untill she is out go in and change the locks. leave it at that as phase 1

Really, really, really bad advice.

A tenant who has fallen into arrears is nothing like a squatter.

They are entitled to due process.

Just as the landlord would be entitled to time and due process, if their responsibilities had been missed.

Which the OP admits is the case, with no inventory, presumably no gas check, no deposit let alone protection etc...

So both side of this ludicrous scenario are at fault.

And need to address their issues legally, or risk getting into proper, official trouble, instead of it being a private, personal disagreement at the moment...

Brb

and if you didn't get a prison sentence for it then if you did any of those things you said then your brother could end up with an OUCHER of a civil claim which could run to thousands and thousands. Some illegal evicted Ts get something in the region of £60K to £80K. Google "nearly legal".

Your "mutual" friend (the ex) is just as responsible legally, moving out doesn't just get him out of it. If he's working then the S8 that HAS to include him (whether working or not), your brother could get the monies owed from him.

evoke

Sounds like another dodgy landlord who has had his comeuppance.

BitterAndTwisted

An "accidental" landlord who was too trusting and neglected to carry out the appropriate research into what he was getting into. Daft but not criminal. Yet.

RAS

Where do we start?

The 30 days notice is completely useless.

HAs youer brother got a Gas Safety Certificate?

When was the start date of the tenancy?

Did the ex-BF give notice of leaving the property?

When will the alchie get to the point when she owes two months rent?

bris

Tell your brother to write to the LHA telling them the tenant is now more than 8 weeks in arrears, this will stop her getting the rent and it will be paid direct to him.
As he clearly doesnt have a clue, get professional help to do the paperwork needed to serve proper notice on her.