Orange-Should I have to pay??

floydgreg

I took out a 24 month contract with Orange on 14th November 2010 and had my number ported (From Virgin). I checked before signing both on the website and in the shop that I would get a signal at home (Suffolk), both said 2g would be fine, in the shop they told me 3g would be too. This is not the case, not to worry, I signed up for the T-mobile shared signal... I can get full signal strength.

I have had nothing but issues since the day I signed up. Text messages are not recieved for days on end, then the back log clears, I get sometimes 35 old messages through in one go, they are fine for a few days. Then they stop again. It's the same with sending them.. This is not area specific, its been the same 65 miles away from home (Lincolnshire) and in London.

Orange saidI had to the let them try and fix it before they would consider letting me out of the contract-I was willing for them to try. They have tried everything, all phone settings, new sim card, hard reset of phone, complete reset of account, different phone. They tried sending me texts, they weren't recieved. They have gone to other networks (Virgin, T-mobile and 3) and have told me on more than one occassion it has been fixed. Apparently despite checking twice my number had ported correctly it was listed on the network as a T-mobile number. The situation still occurs, in one instance I recieved the first part of a message, the 2nd part, sent a minute later, never arrived. The messages I send also very often arrive muddled up-The first part of the message I sent is ok and the 2nd half is one from weeks ago! There was even a random one in the middle once... I have 4 bars of signal on my phone and the messages fail..

Now, I have been very patient, I have paid £45 pounds ringing from my landline. I have paid a about £40 in delivery reports to check if my messages were going (Not accurate!) When I spoke to Orange to ask to be released from my contract they tell me I have to pay arund £700 pounds!

Surely they are in breach of contract, I appreciate from time to time I would lose signal or messages would go astray, but for days on end?! I would guess I've had less days when I have service than when I don't.

Does anyone have any advice? If there is an Orange representative on this forum I would love to hear your comments too....
Thanks!

tazdevil01985

floydgreg wrote: »

I took out a 24 month contract with Orange on 14th November 2010 and had my number ported (From Virgin). I checked before signing both on the website and in the shop that I would get a signal at home (Suffolk), both said 2g would be fine, in the shop they told me 3g would be too. This is not the case, not to worry, I signed up for the T-mobile shared signal... I can get full signal strength.

I have had nothing but issues since the day I signed up. Text messages are not recieved for days on end, then the back log clears, I get sometimes 35 old messages through in one go, they are fine for a few days. Then they stop again. It's the same with sending them.. This is not area specific, its been the same 65 miles away from home (Lincolnshire) and in London.

Orange saidI had to the let them try and fix it before they would consider letting me out of the contract-I was willing for them to try. They have tried everything, all phone settings, new sim card, hard reset of phone, complete reset of account, different phone. They tried sending me texts, they weren't recieved. They have gone to other networks (Virgin, T-mobile and 3) and have told me on more than one occassion it has been fixed. Apparently despite checking twice my number had ported correctly it was listed on the network as a T-mobile number. The situation still occurs, in one instance I recieved the first part of a message, the 2nd part, sent a minute later, never arrived. The messages I send also very often arrive muddled up-The first part of the message I sent is ok and the 2nd half is one from weeks ago! There was even a random one in the middle once... I have 4 bars of signal on my phone and the messages fail..

Now, I have been very patient, I have paid £45 pounds ringing from my landline. I have paid a about £40 in delivery reports to check if my messages were going (Not accurate!) When I spoke to Orange to ask to be released from my contract they tell me I have to pay arund £700 pounds!

Surely they are in breach of contract, I appreciate from time to time I would lose signal or messages would go astray, but for days on end?! I would guess I've had less days when I have service than when I don't.

Does anyone have any advice? If there is an Orange representative on this forum I would love to hear your comments too....
Thanks!

This is a bit of a Grey area.
As with all Mobile Networks it is worth noting that continuous network coverage cannot be guaranteed and network coverage can be affected by factors outside their control (weather, vandalism other operators etc..) This is covere in their terms and conditions (cant find it at the moment but I can guarntee its in there) thats the legal jargon but morally I have to agree with you they should let you out of your contract as long as you have checked before like you did and that Orange have tried to rectify the issue.

floydgreg

I probably didn't make that clear, it is generally only messages coming from 3 network that are an issue. I could have a dozen people send texts at the same and only those on 3 would not arrive. But when orange issued me with a temp number they came through fine!

tazdevil01985

floydgreg wrote: »

I probably didn't make that clear, it is generally only messages coming from 3 network that are an issue. I could have a dozen people send texts at the same and only those on 3 would not arrive. But when orange issued me with a temp number they came through fine!

Thats not Oranges fault then ! I thought it was coverage related. ! If when given an Orange number instead of your number which is ported in, it works this proves that it off of Orange. This needs to be raised with Three and your ONO (Original network Provider) T Mobile who will provide the onward routing of SMS. As I see it you have no claim in cancelling your contract (Even if you did then it may not still work with another provider)

floydgreg

Orange have been speaking to virgin, t-mobile and 3, the situation is still not resolved even though they say they have fixed it.. I know what you are saying but I pay orange for the service I am not getting, as far as I am concerned its up to them to sort it, I shouldn't have to chase other firms. If I ordered something from a shop and didn't get it because their supplier let them down I wouldn't be expected to pay, so why should I in this case? I wouldn't mind if it had been resolved without extra cost, trouble and being fed bs along the way....

tazdevil01985

floydgreg wrote: »

Orange have been speaking to virgin, t-mobile and 3, the situation is still not resolved even though they say they have fixed it.. I know what you are saying but I pay orange for the service I am not getting, as far as I am concerned its up to them to sort it, I shouldn't have to chase other firms. If I ordered something from a shop and didn't get it because their supplier let them down I wouldn't be expected to pay, so why should I in this case? I wouldn't mind if it had been resolved without extra cost, trouble and being fed bs along the way....

Orange are providing you the service. They have proved this when they gave you a temp number and proved it off them, it is for others to resolve. So its a third party issue which is out of Oranges hands (see my logic below - I could be wrong ! but I doubt it). They will deliver any SMS (text) which comes into the network.
Quick overview technically of how SMS works for yourself with a ported number.
Virgin/T Mobile are the ONO of your number and will still keep a record of you in a database. When a H3G subscriber sends a SMS a routing message is sent first (to see where the end subscriber is) it will first go to Virgin/ T Mobile as determined by your MSISDN (number range) The database will be interigated and the routing message will be forwarded onto Orange via routing digits these are added to the front of the message and will point it to Orange . Orange will then reply to three with your IMSI (International Mobile Subscriber Identity) and which switch you are on. The actual message will then be sent from Three to Orange.
My betting is one of two things
1) Orange arent responding to the routing message - unlikely as this worked when you had a temporay number
2) The routing message is not being forwarded - more than likely

This routing message should be able to be traced to see if it hits the Orange network by either Oranges Switch Support team or SMS team and from T Mobile to see if they are getting it from H3G and passing it onto Orange.

I can see what you say that you shouldnt have to chase which is correct I have to agree but Orange is actually trying to help you with this and I am guessing that it is not an Orange fault ! Needs further investigations by all sides.

Your issue still sounds like a coverage issue to me when you say that you get all your messages at once ! When you are out of coverage all the messages are stored for upto 7 days (usually) when you handset regains coverage a paging message is sent and all the messages waiting for delivery are then sent

simax

Basically, as above.

As it stands, any texts sent from an Orange phone should arrive in the normal way if you've ported a number in (as the network knows the subscribers are "on -net"), however any other network sending you an SMS will have the message sent to the original network first (ONO).

Ironically, if your ONO's network totally crashed, stopping calls texts etc, then you'd be affected for all incoming calls and texts EXCEPT other Orange customers calling or texting you, as all off-net call/text activity is externally routed in from the ONO.

As an aside, but this explains it perfectly...

I had a customer call in a few years back that all of a sudden stopped recieving calls and texts from non-Orange phones. This was back in 2008.

He ported his number into Orange in 2002, so was confounded.

Found the reason after a lot of digging. Turned out the original operator (T-Mobile in this case), had re-provisioned the number onto a new Pay Monthly sim pack that was due to dispatch to a retail shop to be sold with a phone!! T-Mobile had somehow let that number slip through instead of being on the "port-exclusion" list.

A quick mail to their MNP team resolved it within a few hours.

So it happens....

tazdevil01985

Thanks Simex glad you thought my explaination was good
I did forget what you said regarding a complete crash which is true only Orange to Orange SMS and Voice as its on net, I have had simular cases where numbers have been ported in for years and suddenly stopped working only to find that the ONO has repatriated the MSISDN

jenniewb

I am with 3-Mobile and have had nothing but signal errors- was unable to send a text message for an entire month from the 20th of Dec.

I live in London.

I also have problems with getting a signal in a moving vehicle (eg bus or train) or even if I am walking around. My phone is a waste of money (they scammed me into the contract anyway) and I have heard from many others that 3 have a poor signal with their phones. OP I'd say this is an issue with 3-mobile rather then with your phone or phone company, it wouldn't be unusual for 3 mobile to be rubbish at providing a connection from where I stand. Any friends I have had on 3 have also had similar issues.

floydgreg

Thanks for the responses guys, I understand what you are saying about the way it works and appreciate you comments. May I throw a few more facts into the mix? (I didn't put everything in to start with as I thought I'd waffled enough!)

-At the times I don't get texts from anyone on 3 I still get texts from every other network that I am aware of (Certainly T-mobile/Virgin/Orange as you would expect but also Vodafone) Does this not rule out the coverage issue? When the messages clear the system I can have had my phone in the same position for 3 hours and all of a sudden they are recieved onto the handset!

-I have had days on end where my messages are not recieved-Again only to 3 (Does this seem to be an issue with them-And why only since I ported my number?)

-As the number I text the most is one on 3 I know when they are and aren't recieved, we have resorted to copy and pasting the messages into facebook so we know exactly what has and hasn't been sent, the fb notifications are recieved so again it can't be a coverage issue. But there maybe messages from other networks that sometimes don't get through and I wouldn't have a clue

-I have my delivery reports switched on (Or did till the cost became prohibitive) and every message said it had been delivered, even when it wasn't recieved the other end. The person on 3 had their delivery reports on and got the same back. Now, I understand that they got the reports as the message was delivered to T-mobile but not forwarded on, but why would they only not forward messages from 3 but still send vodafone and everyone elses?! Why would I get delivery reports for messages that were not recieved?

Finally (For now!) how long should I be expected to pay for a service I am not getting? If I bought a tv I wouldn't keep it just because the faulty part was supplied by someone else, I would expect the manufacturer to refund/replace and take the issue up with them... Should I have to carry on paying the whole 24 month contract with a service that doesn't work when even Orange staff agree they don't know what to do anymore, they wouldn't stay with them, or pay to be released from contract and now won't return my calls?!

tazdevil01985

floydgreg wrote: »

Thanks for the responses guys, I understand what you are saying about the way it works and appreciate you comments. May I throw a few more facts into the mix? (I didn't put everything in to start with as I thought I'd waffled enough!)

-At the times I don't get texts from anyone on 3 I still get texts from every other network that I am aware of (Certainly T-mobile/Virgin/Orange as you would expect but also Vodafone) Does this not rule out the coverage issue? When the messages clear the system I can have had my phone in the same position for 3 hours and all of a sudden they are recieved onto the handset!

-I have had days on end where my messages are not recieved-Again only to 3 (Does this seem to be an issue with them-And why only since I ported my number?)

-As the number I text the most is one on 3 I know when they are and aren't recieved, we have resorted to copy and pasting the messages into facebook so we know exactly what has and hasn't been sent, the fb notifications are recieved so again it can't be a coverage issue. But there maybe messages from other networks that sometimes don't get through and I wouldn't have a clue

-I have my delivery reports switched on (Or did till the cost became prohibitive) and every message said it had been delivered, even when it wasn't recieved the other end. The person on 3 had their delivery reports on and got the same back. Now, I understand that they got the reports as the message was delivered to T-mobile but not forwarded on, but why would they only not forward messages from 3 but still send vodafone and everyone elses?! Why would I get delivery reports for messages that were not recieved?

Finally (For now!) how long should I be expected to pay for a service I am not getting? If I bought a tv I wouldn't keep it just because the faulty part was supplied by someone else, I would expect the manufacturer to refund/replace and take the issue up with them... Should I have to carry on paying the whole 24 month contract with a service that doesn't work when even Orange staff agree they don't know what to do anymore, they wouldn't stay with them, or pay to be released from contract and now won't return my calls?!

Exec Office then executive.office@orange.co.uk need to stop messing about with CS

Orange should return your calls within 24 hours totally unexceptable. I can understand you exasperation I would be simularly miffed however I dont think it is a reason to get out of your contract. Reason for this it will be in the T's and C's somewhere (almost for certain) that Orange doesnt guarntee anything, coverage voice etc....