Other services with unenforceable charges???

taffy056

Reading what Coupon said in context of the thread means that she would not trust the PPC with her bank details, which I can understand, they and all other PPCs are cowboys, however what I don't agree with is simply parking there and not paying anything, that is wrong, and the likelihood is that they may risk court if you have been parking there everyday for a month and not paying, really they have a right to charge to park there, try a standing order with them instead as suggested.

And read my signature, private companies cannot issue penalties, its illegal to do so, there is a simple way to know the differences, if the ticket is issued by the council or police its a real ticket, if its issued by anyone else its an invoice and not enforceable normally.

Coupon-mad

taffy056 wrote: »

Reading what Coupon said in context of the thread means that she would not trust the PPC with her bank details, which I can understand, they and all other PPCs are cowboys, however what I don't agree with is simply parking there and not paying anything, that is wrong, and the likelihood is that they may risk court if you have been parking there everyday for a month and not paying, really they have a right to charge to park there, try a standing order with them instead as suggested.

And read my signature, private companies cannot issue penalties, its illegal to do so, there is a simple way to know the differences, if the ticket is issued by the council or police its a real ticket, if its issued by anyone else its an invoice and not enforceable normally.

Yes, taffy has got it, in terms of the context of my comment there.

I would not normally say 'park and don't pay' but in that particular thread the OP was banging on about paying a stupid amount per month and in doing so giving their Bank details to Euro. If I had just coughed up a ridiculous £80 per month to them I would feel happy to park there ad infinitum without paying...but that's just me and I would never have paid them the £80 in the first place and would certainly NEVER give them my Bank details!...:p

Generally we do not tell people not to pay a reasonable fee for parking. I would be looking for a nearby free car park, personally, is there not a Supermarket in the vicinity?

Driver8

monkey_alan wrote: »

I beg to differ on that, the thread I referred to earlier where someone was asking about the best method of payment is called "Paying monthly for parking - Euro CP" (I can't link to it as I'm a new user but it was started on 12-01-11), and Coupon-mad said



...which probably led me to believe that was the overall consensus here (sorry if I've got that wrong).

Getting back to the subject of charges/penalties, how do you differentiate between the two? If they're all pre-explained on the tariff board, when does a charge become an unlawful penalty? Why is the land owner allowed to set a charge for parking there (which can be as extortionate as he wants) but not to make other charges? Surely all the charges are just as arbitrary as each other (e.g. the fee to park there for an hour could be £100, which may be no less ludicrous than the sum requested by way of "penalty ticket" for parking across two spaces).

Personally I'm in favour of the idea of not paying anything at all on the basis that no losses are suffered by me parking there, and that it can't be proved who entered into the contract, or indeed whether any contract even existed.

What you may not have noticed about these thread's is that most PPC "ticket's" given out refer to are so called free car park's such as supermarket's, where you go in pay for your weekly shop, spend a fortune on food and may even have a coffee, get back to your car and find a so called "fine" . Not pay and display

There's a world of difference.

If i enter a p & d car park i expect to pay, even a private one, but, if for some reason, for what ever reason i am late back to my car by a few minute's and not hour's i would not pay a scam invoice. I am an honest fella, i expect other's to be honest too and not try and rip me off with their perceived authority and delusion's of grandeur.

Oopsadaisy

OP, you are indeed correct in that you do not have to pay anything for parking on any bit of private land...unless you want to.

P&D on private land - no need to pay...unless you want to.

Possible sanctions/actions by landowner -

Barriers so you have to pay on entry/exit - these are pretty effective

Clamping - signs etc need to be dispalyed and even then you can often sue for recovery of fee

Tickets/invoices/PCNs - as effective as a chocolate fireguard

Wrt the window cleaner....if you've paid in the past then you'd probably lose in court esp if and they have a receipt book to 'prove' there's been an ongoing contract.

However if a window cleaner just did your house 'on spec' and then asked for money you would be under no obligation to pay [kinda like unsolicited goods in the post].

esmerobbo

monkey_alan wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused! When is the charge legal and when isn't it legal? I assume if it's displayed on a P&D tariff board then it's legally binding, like one run by Euro Car Parks in Manchester which I often use that charges £8 for the whole day. Yet some on here are saying you could still get away with not paying it and they couldn't enforce it? I'm kind of 50/50 as to whether I should pay the £8 next time...!

I would think if a parking company took you to court for the £8 plus costs they would win!
However given what they would have to do to do it, would not make it worthwhile for them.

I have no problem paying to park even if I do believe the price is high, they are offering a service and I am accepting it. Then if they chose to issue an invoice because my rear wheel was on a bay marking, they could swivel!:D

Whatdoiknow

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

However if a window cleaner just did your house 'on spec' and then asked for money you would be under no obligation to pay [kinda like unsolicited goods in the post].

Bit like the git who, when I was driving through London jumped out in front of me and washed my windsceen.

My two young boys learned a couple of extra words that day.:)

esmerobbo

Whatdoiknow wrote: »

Bit like the git who, when I was driving through London jumped out in front of me and washed my windsceen.

My two young boys learned a couple of extra words that day.:)

Was one of them "OFF".:D

The problem with them chappies is they normally make the screen worse.
We had one local here who had to be ASBO'd because he got run over twice!:D

dzug1

When does a reasonable parking charge (enforceable at least in theory if the difficulties over proof of contract can be overcome) become an unenforceable penalty (and therefore unenforceable regardless of any practicalities)?


And as a householder what are my remedies if someone insists on parking on my driveway (open plan planning rules say I can't erect a gate/fence)? Sounds like absolutely none, at least not legal ones.

Sounds like the law (as in many areas) is a mess

esmerobbo

dzug1 wrote: »

When does a reasonable parking charge (enforceable at least in theory if the difficulties over proof of contract can be overcome) become an unenforceable penalty (and therefore unenforceable regardless of any practicalities)?


And as a householder what are my remedies if someone insists on parking on my driveway (open plan planning rules say I can't erect a gate/fence)? Sounds like absolutely none, at least not legal ones.

Sounds like the law (as in many areas) is a mess

It is a mess indeed.

If we take a car park which is solely a car park not attached to a retailer or such. Which is run as a business providing car parking facilities, Which is signed as such in a way that it is an obvious car park. I think the law would be on the side of the operator/landowner regards recovery off loss and costs. I would think any Judge would likely see it that way.

If a Judge would agree that by not abiding by the terms a penalty could be charged is a different matter. It would be down to the Judges discretion.

If someone was parking on your land you could put a sign up and clamp them. Charge them a reasonable amount for the release, and I don't think a Judge would order against you, as long as they agreed the fee was fair! [I said could not should]:D

trisontana

dzug1 wrote: »

When does a reasonable parking charge (enforceable at least in theory if the difficulties over proof of contract can be overcome) become an unenforceable penalty (and therefore unenforceable regardless of any practicalities)?


And as a householder what are my remedies if someone insists on parking on my driveway (open plan planning rules say I can't erect a gate/fence)? Sounds like absolutely none, at least not legal ones.

Sounds like the law (as in many areas) is a mess

The only thing they can ask for is the actual material loss suffered by the landowner. Anything else would be considered a penalty and against the law of the land which says that one private citizen cannot punish another private citizen.

I see you are raising the the old chestnut of "somebody parking on my driveway". I put it to you that this never happens in real life. Don't forget that private parking companies mainly operate is such places as supermarkets and retail parks. That's where they try and con people out of money, not on private driveways.