Other services with unenforceable charges???

trisontana

I think you are confusing the charge for actually parking on private land, and the unenforcible "penalties" demanded by the PPC/landowner for breaking their "rules".

Stigy

monkey_alan wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, but I'm still a bit confused! When is the charge legal and when isn't it legal? I assume if it's displayed on a P&D tariff board then it's legally binding, like one run by Euro Car Parks in Manchester which I often use that charges £8 for the whole day. Yet some on here are saying you could still get away with not paying it and they couldn't enforce it? I'm kind of 50/50 as to whether I should pay the £8 next time...!

It's legal for a land owner to charge for parking on his land. It's also legal for a PPC to charge you an extortionate amount in the form of an invioce (otherwise they wouldn't do it, woulf they?). The only problem is, it's unenforceable, so feel free to take the p*ss to heart's content...Unless the Railway Byelaws are used, but I'm not getting on to that one again, lol.

HO87

Stigy wrote: »

...Unless the Railway Byelaws are used, but I'm not getting on to that one again, lol.

Pleased to hear it - otherwise I might have to chew my left arm off having chewed the right one off in preference to reading the endless posts. Talk about circular argument. I'm amazed no one got giddy.

Thanks for the news any way.

monkey_alan

OK, I'll do the cheeky thing and not buy a P&D ticket when I go there next week! I'm still not clear about when it's a charge or a penalty, can they not set their own terms? E.g. They can say "£8 to park here all day" on the tariff board and that's a legitimate charge in the eyes of the law, but if they say an additional amount will be levied for parking outside the white lines for example, or staying longer than the stated hours, then it becomes an additional sum due and hence an unenforceable penalty, right? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick!

Anyway the £8 itself is surely a ludicrous penalty as they don't incur losses of £8 by letting me park there... (the car park is never full so I'm not depriving them of income off other motorists).

Stigy

monkey_alan wrote: »

OK, I'll do the cheeky thing and not buy a P&D ticket when I go there next week! I'm still not clear about when it's a charge or a penalty, can they not set their own terms? E.g. They can say "£8 to park here all day" on the tariff board and that's a legitimate charge in the eyes of the law, but if they say an additional amount will be levied for parking outside the white lines for example, or staying longer than the stated hours, then it becomes an additional sum due and hence an unenforceable penalty, right? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick!

Anyway the £8 itself is surely a ludicrous penalty as they don't incur losses of £8 by letting me park there... (the car park is never full so I'm not depriving them of income off other motorists).

When I use the term charge I am refering to the fee you are supposed to pay when you park (P&D ticket). If you're intending to be cheeky, I'd make sure it's a PPC car park and not a council one, as their terms are very much enforceable and are called "Penalties"...

monkey_alan

Yup it's fully private (Euro Car Parks).

So effectively we're back to my first post (sorry to take everyone all round the houses!) - any charges they stipulate on their board or otherwise are legally unenforceable and needn't be paid at all, it just boils down to whether the motorist is feeling charitable enough to donate some coins into the P&D machine!

I think I'll put my coinage towards my personal beer fund in future! :beer:

trisontana

monkey_alan wrote: »

Yup it's fully private (Euro Car Parks).

So effectively we're back to my first post (sorry to take everyone all round the houses!) - any charges they stipulate on their board or otherwise are legally unenforceable and needn't be paid at all, it just boils down to whether the motorist is feeling charitable enough to donate some coins into the P&D machine!

I think I'll put my coinage towards my personal beer fund in future! :beer:

But you are still confusing the charge for parking and the "penalties" demanded by the PPC for breaking their rules. There is a difference.

taffy056

The landowner has a right too charge for usage of their land, if everyone suddenly stopped paying for the use, how long do you think it would stay open? Legally companies cannot issue penalties, morally as a user of the facility it should be paid for imo

Driver8

monkey_alan wrote: »

Yup it's fully private (Euro Car Parks).

So effectively we're back to my first post (sorry to take everyone all round the houses!) - any charges they stipulate on their board or otherwise are legally unenforceable and needn't be paid at all, it just boils down to whether the motorist is feeling charitable enough to donate some coins into the P&D machine!

I think I'll put my coinage towards my personal beer fund in future! :beer:

You are getting it wrong, all wrong about this whole thread of how PPC's work.

No one one here is at all saying do not pay in a pay and display car park. What we are about is how the PPC's try and extort money out you for the slightest indiscretion such as parking an inch over a marked bay, or even sending you invoices for overstaying by a few minute's in a p & d car park when you have paid.

What you are saying is akin to just driving into a car park owned by whoever and just staying there all day for nothing. No one on here is advocating that at all.

If i parked in a p & d car park owned or rather ran by a PPC i would pay. If, however, i was a few minute's late back to my car for whatever reason and they sent me an invoice, it would be binned. I would not though, just pay for an hour's parking then stay there for 8 hour's. That's not what we are about.

monkey_alan

Driver8 wrote: »

No one one here is at all saying do not pay in a pay and display car park.

Driver8 wrote: »

What you are saying is akin to just driving into a car park owned by whoever and just staying there all day for nothing. No one on here is advocating that at all.

I beg to differ on that, the thread I referred to earlier where someone was asking about the best method of payment is called "Paying monthly for parking - Euro CP" (I can't link to it as I'm a new user but it was started on 12-01-11), and Coupon-mad said

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Just park there and don't pay

...which probably led me to believe that was the overall consensus here (sorry if I've got that wrong).

Getting back to the subject of charges/penalties, how do you differentiate between the two? If they're all pre-explained on the tariff board, when does a charge become an unlawful penalty? Why is the land owner allowed to set a charge for parking there (which can be as extortionate as he wants) but not to make other charges? Surely all the charges are just as arbitrary as each other (e.g. the fee to park there for an hour could be £100, which may be no less ludicrous than the sum requested by way of "penalty ticket" for parking across two spaces).

Personally I'm in favour of the idea of not paying anything at all on the basis that no losses are suffered by me parking there, and that it can't be proved who entered into the contract, or indeed whether any contract even existed.