Warning and advice about LCS Utility Investigation Civil Enforcement Debt Recoveries

diana_prince_2

Hello all!

I came across this thread when looking up LCS. It's interesting to read everyone's experiences. But my case probably takes the cake in seeing how pathetic British Gas are and how illegal LCS are in doing what they do.

I received a ‘Intent to Demand Payment’ letter from LCS three months back saying that according to ‘their records’ I was an occupier at address X between 2011 and 2015 and that I owed British Gas a lot of money over used gas/electricity charges. The letter said I could email or call them if I disputed this, so I emailed them a ‘Prove It’ letter disputing their claim but never heard back. Probably because nobody at LCS knows how to use any sort of technology other than printing computer generated letters.

But anyhow, I received a second letter few weeks back and this time it was ‘Formal Demand of Payment’ along with threat to pass my details to credit reference agencies.

So how am I connected to address X?

Address X is a commercial trading place - a shop to be precise and they have been there since 2011-12. All letters I got from LCS are addressed to this shop by their trading name. I know this because we privately rented the flat above this shop from a lettings agency between mid-2011 to early 2013. We moved to another city in early 2013 and haven't lived there since.

The shop in question - they are still the occupiers at this address! We have friends who live there who have told us this. I investigated as well. They have a Facebook page and are active on it and even respond to requests for appointments.

Am I liable for this debt?

Obviously not. Firstly, I have never applied for or held any utility accounts to begin with, my credit report also proves this. While we lived in the flat above the shop, our provider was Scottish Power and all utility bills were paid by my partner to Scottish Power. When we moved, we notified Scottish Power, who settled our account at address X and then moved our account with us to our new address - we have bills and letter to prove this. We also have a letter from the council and council tax statements stating that we lived in the flat above and not the shop, they are definitely two separate addresses in my opinion.

Secondly, the shop are still occupiers there, trading under the same name the letters are addressed to. So why are LCS chasing me for it? Why not chase the shop for unpaid debt when they are the current occupiers and have been since 2011-12?

What do British Gas say?

I tweeted to British Gas Help account on Twitter about this and have received replies via Direct Messages on two occasions.

The first time, ‘Paul’ from British Gas said that he has requested the account be returned back from the collections team and that it was a mix up that he will try and sort it out.

Despite this I received the second letter. So I tweeted again. This time ‘Jamie-Lee’ said the account on their system is under the occupier (What does this even mean?!) and that I need to speak to LCS direct to advise I wasn’t responsible for the property as they have completed the trace for this. I sent her a screenshot of the email I sent to LCS disputing the claim in their first letter. At this point, ‘Jamie-Lee’ admits that they don’t have my name on their system at all and that ‘this is something you’d need to speak to the Debt Collections Agency about’.

So basically British Gas just admitted that they don’t have my details in their system at all (DUH!!) and that I have to speak to LCS about a debt they are pursuing on British Gas' behalf. :j

What I plan to do for now?

I'm going to ignore this for now seeing as they can't really do much to me apart from send letters. I have no utility accounts on my name so they can't possibly report this to credit agencies and spoil my credit score. Unless I'm wrong in thinking this?

Frankly, I don’t know how British Gas and LCS can get away with this. When the letters are clearly addressed to the shop, why am I being chased for this debt? I have no doubt in my mind that I don’t own this debt. For me this is about violation of my privacy.

I question the legality of what LCS are doing – how did they get my name and my current address details? Did they pick it up from mail being delivered to my old address or did the shop occupiers illegally pass on my name? If they have, they should know they are causing me a lot of distress and harassment.

I’ve never been a customer with British Gas - British Gas have also admitted this to me. So they have no proof that I was ever an occupier at the said address. Why should the onus of proving anything be on me when I never lived in the property in dispute? British Gas is equally liable for this in my opinion.

Anybody have any other ideas on what I can and should do? Can I report them to any other authority for violation of privacy and data protection act? Can I file a Right to Information request to British Gas/LCS to find out how they got hold of my details when I’m not their customer? Send letters to BG management? Moneybox BBC are also interested in hearing my story.

Time permitting, I'm willing to try either of the above if it means British Gas and LCS will stop demanding money from me and pursue the rightful owner of this debt - the occupier of the property in dispute.

fatbelly

diana_prince wrote: »

Anybody have any other ideas on what I can and should do? Can I report them to any other authority for violation of privacy and data protection act? Can I file a Right to Information request to British Gas/LCS to find out how they got hold of my details when I’m not their customer? Send letters to BG management? Moneybox BBC are also interested in hearing my story.

Time permitting, I'm willing to try either of the above if it means British Gas and LCS will stop demanding money from me and pursue the rightful owner of this debt - the occupier of the property in dispute.

It will be what the debt industry call 'tracing' - your old details when you lived over the shop match with enough of a score for their computers to fire off letters to your new address.

Obviously it's wrong - and it's the sort of thing that their 'professional association' tells us does not happen.

So complain to LCS, complain to CSA (credit services association), although probably both will be ignored

http://www.csa-uk.com/consumer/our-members/#contact

and let the FCA know the results - they don't take up individual cases but it is within their remit to withdraw LCS's licence to trade, and I think a thread with 223 posts sort of points to that being a sensible option.

diana_prince_2

fatbelly wrote: »

It will be what the debt industry call 'tracing' - your old details when you lived over the shop match with enough of a score for their computers to fire off letters to your new address.

Obviously it's wrong - and it's the sort of thing that their 'professional association' tells us does not happen.

So complain to LCS, complain to CSA (credit services association), although probably both will be ignored


and let the FCA know the results - they don't take up individual cases but it is within their remit to withdraw LCS's licence to trade, and I think a thread with 223 posts sort of points to that being a sensible option.

Thank you fatbelly for responding.

I wasn't aware about 'tracing'! This is shocking to know!! So basically my very clean credit rating is under threat because somebody I was living near decided not to pay their bills!

In my mind, I know it can't go on my credit file as the addresses don't match and I have no utility accounts under my name. But I can't live under that fear. Like everybody else, I work hard to keep a very clean credit record.

I had a look at CSA's complaints form and oh boy, they really don't want people to complain do they!? I don't think they are going to do anything about this. Needs to be bigger coverage of this, possibly a Change petition or raise the issue in news media.

I really want to do something about this, but I'll have to set aside time for it. Will post details here if I do take some sort of action.

fatbelly

From

http://www.csa-uk.com/assets/documents/factsheets/myths_and_facts_of_debt_collection.pdf

Myth
Each year thousands of people are pursued about debts that are not theirs. Debt collectors and credit reference agencies are doing nothing to reduce the incidences of a false positive trace (sometimes referred to as a mis-trace).
Fact
In reality, the number of false positive or mis-traces each year are surprisingly low, although if it were to happen to you, it is possible that a number of companies will follow the same trace results and therefore write to you also. It is this small number of cases which sometimes make headline news. Reducing this relatively low opportunity for inaccurate tracing, and by definition, their impact both on the customer and the industry at large, has been a major focus for the Credit Services Association in recent years, and is the specific responsibility of a dedicated working party within the organisation.
This working party, which comprises a number of leading cross-industry representatives and experts including tracers, debt buyers, debt collection agencies, credit reference agencies, and other like-minded associations, is tasked primarily with driving better standards, standards that will in turn reduce the numbers of avoidable mistakes and reduce customer detriment. Creditors themselves have also been engaged, as data errors can often result in wrong data being held on their systems that is not corrected.
A central role of the working party has been to potentially create a new set of rules. Examples include a proposed rule that a trace is not to be considered valid unless two independent sources of data or information have provided the same address for the individual being sought – and that only one of those sources can be a credit reference agency. Similarly a trace is not confirmed unless and until verbal contact has been made with the customer or a third-party known to them (subject to conditions around who it is acceptable to contact). Where an address has been identified for an individual, and that address is not in a reasonable vicinity of the last known address, further verification will be conducted to establish with reasonable confidence that the correct individual has been identified.
Crucially, the new rules additionally propose that individuals should be matched on a full name and date of birth basis only and that any addresses that have been reported to a client, or updated to the credit reference agencies and are later found to be erroneous, are to be reverse-reported such that the incorrect address is removed from the clients’ and CRA’s systems. Of course there is some way to go before the rules are adopted, but we are proactively engaged with the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) to deliver the improvements we are ultimately looking for.

See, they think 'the number of false positive or mis-traces each year are surprisingly low' - so it's worth letting them know and reporting their response.

miizzey

i had amissed call from these today. this is my first home, ive never been with British gas. but the previous owner who lived here sadly passed away. so r they ringing me for her debt. is it 100% for british gas. only my mum used my name alot now im older it all coming back on me and gtting letters from left right and centre. just wanna make sure its previous tanents debt and not mine

fatbelly

miizzey wrote: »

i had amissed call from these today. this is my first home, ive never been with British gas. but the previous owner who lived here sadly passed away. so r they ringing me for her debt. is it 100% for british gas. only my mum used my name alot now im older it all coming back on me and gtting letters from left right and centre. just wanna make sure its previous tanents debt and not mine

You've got the same phone number as the previous tenant?

Worth getting it changed.

The rule with LCS is to wait until they make a specific allegation in writing, then send them a prove-it.

diana_prince_2

A quick update:

I ordered my credit report from Experian to check if all is well. I found that under 'Previous Searches', First Locate, the company behind LCS, had performed a search enquiry on me around two weeks before they sent me the first letter. The application type is showing as Unrecorded Enquiry and again, although the search is in my name, it is against the shop address and different from my old address. E.g. Shop address is 5 joe Bloggs Street and my old address was 5C Joe Bloggs Street,

Now in the same document, this is what Experian say about 'Searches':

A search shows that an organisation has looked at your credit report. It will show the name of the organisation plus the date and the reason for the search. A search can take place for many reasons, including to assess a credit application, to provide a quote, to check your identity and to provide you with a copy of your own credit report. Searches stay on your Experian credit report for 12 months. A lender must always get your permission before looking at your credit report.

TIP: When a lender looks at your report, it can see any previous searches that resulted from you applying for credit in the past. It is allowed to use these searches to help make decisions about you, normally when calculating your credit score. Other types of searches are not normally visible to lenders and do not affect your score. As a result, you can check your own report as often as you wish and this won’t harm your credit rating. Previous searches do not show whether credit was accepted or refused.

According to Experian, this is what is meant by 'Unrecorded Enquiry':

What is an unrecorded enquiry on my credit report?

Lenders register an ‘unrecorded enquiry’ search footprint when they need to check your report but it isn’t appropriate to register a specific footprint that other lenders might see. I’ll give you two examples. You’ve applied for credit, been refused and then appealed against the decision. As a result, the lender takes another look at your credit report but registers an unrecorded enquiry instead of a further credit-application footprint – because that would give other lenders the impression you had applied for credit again. Secondly, you check your credit report, spot a discrepancy and contact the relevant lender to query it. While investigating your complaint the lender needs to look at your report, so they register this access an unrecorded enquiry. Unrecorded enquiries are not visible to other lenders and don’t therefore affect credit scoring, but you can see them when you check your own credit report, which is important. To understand a bit more about different search footprints and how they are used you can read our Your Credit Report And Previous Searches guide.

So basically a lender would still need your permission to do an unrecorded search. So how can LCS perform a search on me without my permission? This company seems to employ all sorts of illegal tactics to 'trace' people for debts.

Hammockthing

I received a letter from these people recently. Well, I left the UK in 2014 to come and live in Bulgaria (if you want to save money, this is the place to come to) and cleared up all accounts before leaving. I own a flat that I rent out there through an agency though. The letter was scanned and sent to me today. It didn't specifically say that I owed money, it says...

We have been trying to contact you regarding a personal matter and have been provided with your name and address for our enquiries.

Anyone had an initial letter saying this and know what it's about? I think I'll call them tomorrow. Luckily we don't get scammed on phone call prices here and can call European landlines for free.

fatbelly

Hammockthing wrote: »

I received a letter from these people recently. Well, I left the UK in 2014 to come and live in Bulgaria (if you want to save money, this is the place to come to) and cleared up all accounts before leaving. I own a flat that I rent out there through an agency though. The letter was scanned and sent to me today. It didn't specifically say that I owed money, it says...

We have been trying to contact you regarding a personal matter and have been provided with your name and address for our enquiries.

Anyone had an initial letter saying this and know what it's about? I think I'll call them tomorrow. Luckily we don't get scammed on phone call prices here and can call European landlines for free.

Phoning them is not a good idea unless you know the debt collection game better than they do.

My advice would be to wait until they make a specific allegation in writing, then send them a prove-it.

Hammockthing

Fatbelly, I appreciate what you're saying. I don't see how there can be a bill to pay in my name and they haven't asked me for money. I left my flat 18 months ago and there were no bills in my name. I put it in the hands of a decent agency and since then have had about 4 different tenants. My guess is that one of the tenants bought something or had a contract with someone and didn't pay before leaving my flat. So they only have the address of my flat to go on and have tried to reach me this way to see if I can pass info about the tenant on to them. It's all I can think of.
For a long time I've been up on how to deal with such people and the legal aspect of just talking to them and creating joinder. I would guess this sort of thing should really be picked up by the estate agency.
I was up for a good conversation with them - not giving my 'name' (and probably asking if there is any legal requirement for me to possess such a thing) but having slept on it, I think I will indeed do nothing unless they make a specific claim or threat. If they do, I'll put it up on here.