Help, gross misconduct!

Uncertain

Aliasaila wrote: »

But if the tribunal finds that my dismissal was unfair surely asda would have to at least rephrase my reason for leaving.

My first tribunal ruled that I'd been constructively dismissed and discriminated against due to my disability, suddenly I wasn't sacked on my reference and the reason for leaving was changed to "health related issues" (I saw their reference for my next job).

My point is that a tribunal has no power to order a particular reference. The former employer could simply refuse to provide one at all, which never looks good, or say anything they like as long as it is true and not deliberately misleading. They could very probably say "We we concerned about the use of Aliasaila's staff discount card and, after and investigation, took the decision to terminate her employment". The fact that, 6 or 9 months on you win a tribunal does not make the statement untrue.

If however you broker some kind of settlement then an agreed reference wording can form a legally binding part of the settlement. Potentially, if they later failed to stick to it, you could make a claim for all resulting losses.

Bamber19

Aliasaila wrote: »

My cousin (he's a lawyer but not employment) said that if we take mum to a doctor and get her to verify mums illness and perhaps take in photos of the bleach etc (we counted last night, 10 bottles of asda bleach, 6 of green toilet duck, stupid amounts of air fresheners, pledge polishes, dusters, cloths, we could sell them back to asda at this rate!) then it would be unfair of them to sack me as clearly they are still in my house (and you can't buy asda bleach elsewhere, they can check their cameras i've not been in since my shift on friday and i've not been near any other asda so they can't accuse me of buying it to back up my story).

Your cousin is doing more harm than good putting daft, irrelevant ideas in your head. If you work in an entirely different area of law your best bet is to not offer opinions, people rely on them because you're "a lawyer" but more often than not they end up being entirely wrong or a poor interpretation of something you last experienced 15 years ago at university. Pictures of bottles tell the store nothing at all, anyone could have been in and bought them on your behalf, you could have been in (If you think they're going to have someone sit and watch CCTV footage for the entire time since you last worked until you are next in, or that it is reasonable to expect them to do so, then you're mad) it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world for you to get hold of a few bottles of bleach undetected. Ultimately your store card is your responsibility and you take responsibility for what others you give it to use it for.

I still don't understand how it's meant to have worked (hopefully there's a lengthier explanation for your mangers) with regards her paying for shopping separately. All cash transactions and she adds her own shopping to yours to hide it from your dad? Is your dad checking her receipts as she comes in the door but not yours?

These cards are more trouble than they're worth, they almsot always end up being abused in some way and all that is required from ASDA is that they reasonably believe you have abused it (through your mother) which on the face of it would be likely, similar items going through says 2 people's shopping, that your mother is buying for a friend to take advantage of the discount. None of this barrs your managers from believing your story, even if they are entitled to think the worst from the facts, so it's worth telling the story as it is and joping they take your word for it, prepare for the worst though and deal with the issues that the meeting will be about, do not start talking about how you feel discriminated against, bullied etc on completely unrelated matters as it wont help at that stage and will look simply like a desperate attempt to guilt trip them into not sacking you, which if they are on the fence at that moment will amost definitely lead to them jumping down on the side of dismissal.

Aliasaila

I would love it if mum had a friend to abuse it for! Unfortunately mental illness doesn't work that way and mum has alienated almost everyone and is doing a damned good job of alienating everyone else. My oldest sister only speaks to her because she doesn't want to deprive mum of time with the grandkids, my brothers don't see her and communicate with her over the phone except at big family events. Me, dad, sister and cousin all just about cope with her but it's getting harder and harder as she's getting progressively worse since she decided several months ago that she didn't want to take her meds any more. I was actually planning on moving out in March but this might not happen now because of her and I don't know what I'll do because I just can't live with her much longer.

That aside, what happens in our house is mum and dads earnings get combined and every Monday they do the banking, dad gives mum the housekeeping money and money for other things like bills, the dogs vet plan etc. In with this is an allowance for food shopping which they keep the receipt for as they are currently giving their receipts for things like this to the guy who is dealing with the bankrupcy (it's not gone to court yet, they are doing things with mum and dads accounts as well because of the self employment).

Now when this all started mum started hiding money from dad and not putting it in the pot every week. To conceal her bleach habit she's been adding her items onto my shopping and making out that she's bought my stuff at different times to her own and added on bits that she "forgot to lift" the first time around (and relied on me assuming she was being honest). It's never occurred to me to compare the times on the two reciepts.

Even now she's being a nightmare, apparently we have so much bleach because "we use it", she genuinely doesn't see the problem that we all have (though she had a wee cry on Friday and said she felt awful because I hate her because she's lost me my job, she's been fine since), apparently she doesn't need any more stress (hello - it's me that's losing my job you loon ball).

Dad has been really good and said that they wont want any digs or anything off of me if I lose my job, not even paying for my food or my portion of the bills. I pointed out that this arrangement would last less than a month before mum would complain and she'd probably want all of my DLA money but dad has promised this wont happen.

I really am expecting the worst tomorrow, I just think it's really cruel of them to make me work 3 hours of my shift before this meeting.

Googlewhacker

The fact they are making you work is surely a good sign?

Aliasaila

Well I hope so, I kind of thought that too but I can't get the managers words out of my head "so you're not suspended yet" which makes me think that I will be at some point which certainly isn't a good thing.

alyth

as a fellow employee of Asda, albeit i work only three days a week as I'm a mature student, and have only been there for seven months, you have to abide by the rules at all times. I've seen so many things like staff buying things during their working hours which is against rules, staff putting things aside. Problem is that Asda change the rules on a weekly basis - literally, I work on the CSD for five hours a week and it is a nightmare for me trying to keep up with developments.

Have to say the family discount card is a nightmare - a guy I work with has one for his mother (who he lives with) but she has a sandwich business so her shopping goes through as two lots, one for the business, one for the family. She's tried a couple of times with me (I'm a very soft person) to use the card for the business items and I've had to say no.

I sympathise with you OP, Asda are brutal if you put a foot wrong, but I think (and I know this from a friend who was fired from the store I work in for abuse of a family discount card) that playing any family issues will only make it worse for you. When it happened to my friend she was suspended pending an investigation, which happened extremely quickly, then sacked within four days. On the plus side, she appealed, and was reinstated!!!

nearlyrich

If your mum has abused your card and it ends with you losing your job the very least they can do is support you through the sanction period or until you manage to get another job, I don't think it's kind of your dad it's his duty!

In hindsight it was probably not a good plan to give the access to your mum but that's in the past and you can't change what's gone before. I hope they let you off with a warning and you keep your job will be thinking of you tomorrow.

vtwin_man

Hi,

Your manager is not following co. procedure: If you have potentially committed an act of Gross Misconduct, you should have been suspended immediately. Bring this up. You should not still be in work.

If they insist on following through with this the worst they should do - if anything - is give you a final written warning - after all you did 'allow' your mum to potentially abuse your discount card - at least on paper. Plead your case that you are also a victim due to your Mum's behaviour. Explain that you have confiscated the card to ensure that this cannot happen again.

DO NOT GO INTO THE HEARING WITHOUT AN EXPERIENCED COLLEAGUE REP!.

Ask for an adjournment if one isn't available. This is your right under the co. disciplinary policy.

Is there any CCTV footage of your Mum at checkouts? This will at least show that she didn't simply pass your card on to the next person in the queue. Ask to view it if available - again you have the right.

However - if you are aware that she has been abusing the card - either take your punishment like a man or resign before you are dismissed and look for another job and stop wasting everybody's time. Simple fraud.

Aliasaila

The thing is is that telling them about my mums problems is the only way to explain the double transactions. I can't make something up although I do wish that I didn't have to talk to this particular manager about mums problems.

It is perfectly within the rules to refund your nominated user for buying the colleague items for the colleagues personal use, the personnel manager agreed with me on that point. There isn't a second business involved (parents drive taxis; use a valet company, discount doesn't apply on diesel) and everything was bought for the home. I have read and re-read the booklet all weekend and I have done nothing wrong and neither has my mum. It would appear that it is within the rules to buy everything in the whole store on discount without any issues as long as you didn't sell it on.

Aliasaila

Thanks Vtwin, is that in the colleague handbook or in the disciplinary procedures book?

Can I really complain that they never suspended me? The manager definitely said at the start of the 2nd half of the meeting that I was being investigated for gross misconduct and that I could be dismissed and he asked me to confirm that I understood this, it was in the notes I signed as well.

There doesn't appear to be any CCTV footage, certainly none was mentioned at the time and they had lots of what looked like genicom print outs but nothing else.