MSE News: Santander customer data still going astray

[Deleted User]

As soon as A&L became Santander I closed my account. I knew they had a bad reputation in other countries too.

01Sophie

As well as the other problems listed, has anyone had the experience of them losing your information. My sister and I have power of attorney (POA) for our mother's accounts. This takes a fair bit of time & much personal ID etc to set up (rightly so) and we had used it for a couple of years, but when we tried to use it last summer they told us they had no record of it. We checked at the branches where we did the set up but they send it off to central office, and the central office did not have it. Of course we had proof that they had accepted our signatures on account documents previously, but the attitude was still very much that it did not exist now so we have to go through it again. Wonder what happened to all those documents, copies of ID etc that we gave them?!

tightarsey

Cahoot/Santander Credit Card Customers
'Statement Windows' replacing Fixed Statement Dates.

Has your Statement Date on the 10th of each month changed from
being issued on the 11th and finishing on the 10th of the next month? to being variable - ie. 11/12/10 to 14/01/11 (or beyond)

Read this info:

This information relates to the Cahoot Credit Brand, part of Santander, but may include other brands such as Abbey National, and Alliance and Leicester issued Credit Cards, which use Santander backend systems for credit card billing.

Information relates to ‘Underhand Practices’ regards changes made to a Customer’s Statement Date , so that this/these are now Statement ‘Windows’, i.e. a Window/Range of Dates that the Statement can be issued on – extending/shortening the Statement period ‘as necessary’, depending on transactions in the system/customer profiling (regular monthly transactions etc).

Across the board (per customer), this generates large amounts of increased interest/fees (including over limit fees) for Santander. In certain scenarios can generate large interest charges where the customer should not incur any interest.

The system change has taken place since September 2010 and is in clear breach of their terms and conditions. The practice has the effect of bringing forward transactions into the current billing period (beyond the statement date), where previously were not due until the subsequent billing period.

On a Statement Balance of £1000, with an interest rate of 15.95% this can be a difference of paying £20 interest that month, where no interest would have been payable, if the payment made had covered the full balance of the Statement Balance (under previous fixed statement date).

Additionally a £12 overlimit fee is possible, if this change caused the customer to go over their credit limit in the current statement period because of this change, in addition to the subsequent month – if the customer then fails to take balance below their credit limit, ie. £24 instead of £12.

The change can be seen to have physiological effect on Customer who clear their balance each month – as it may force them to switch to make a part payment, due to receiving an unexpected increased Statement Balance due that month and therefore incur interest, where under the old system the customer may have cleared the full balance, due to it being a lower amount.

The ‘Statement Window’ rather than fixed Statement date change generates

1)An increased statement balance due that month – transactions are brought forward (includes payments which would previously appear on the following month under old system of fixed statement date). Where transactions are brought forward these are due within 13 days where previously, those transactions were previously due (under old system) on the following month’s statement – 46 days time. Can have effect of adding additional £12 overlimit fee, if the additional transactions take customer overlimit in current statement period.

2)Customer can incur interest, where in worse case- there would have been zero for the current month’s statement, if the payment received that month is treated as a part payment rather than a full payment equal to the actual statement amount of transactions without the addition of transactions which would have previously appeared on the following month (under old system of fixed statement date)

In conversation to on xx/01/2011.Cahoot Manager during formal complaint conversation stated by telephone.

Cahoot Manager stated they had consulted the terms and conditions and there was nothing to define a Customer’s statement date/statement period (see below)

There is no such thing as a fixed statement date, but has always being a ‘Statement Window'. Within this ‘Statement Window’ the bank just has to generate a new statement for the previous period.

Manager Stated: That the 46 Day Interest free period in the Cahoot Summary Box is a Maximum of 46 Days, term. 'upto’ 46 Days is now used. Manager did not specify the maximum length of the ‘Statement Window’. (The ‘Statement Window’ has the effect of reducing the 46 days interest free period – so now described as ‘upto’ 46 days)

It was not possible to tell from Manager’s response whether the Statement Window is extended based on customer risk, to bring more transactions forward where customer risk is higher (i.e. disproportionally hitting poorer customers) or whether based on customer profiling.

An extended Statement Window has the effect of bringing forward statistically more transactions per customer into the current payment period), whether this applied across the board, or individual high risk customers.

Manager Stated: The selected payment is now on or around a selected date in the month, rather than on or after, ie. it can now be before your selected date (this date chosen online by customer). Manager stated the Statement Window is a result of the payment window and not vice versa, when questioned on previously having a fixed statement date.

Background to this complaint, the ‘Statement Window’ in more detail.

A new backend system came into use by Cahoot in September 2010, as part of Santander System integration. The old system used a fixed statement date – same date each month.

The complaint came about because the Statement Date began to vary ie. become a ’Statement Window' of Dates.

Previously the Statements under Cahoot's System ran like clockwork, every month at 1800hrs on the 11th of each month the customer received an email indicating that a new statement had been generated and to log into their
Cahoot Account.

Examples.
11/01/10-10/02/10 - statement email 1809hrs 11/02/10. (taken from info on gmail)
11/02/10-10/03/10 – statement email 1809hrs 11/03/10

New System
October 2010- the statement window of dates began to occur.
October 11/09/10-11/10/10 - statement email 12/02/10 (Statement Window extended 1 Day)
November 12/10/10-11/11/10 statement email 12/02/10 (Statement Window extended 1 Day)
December 12/11/10-10/12/10 statement email 11/02/10 (Normal Date 11th-though period 1 day shorter)
January 11/12/10-14/01/11 statement email 15/01/11 (Statement Window extended 4 Days)

This was noticed in October/November Statements by Customer, but thought it a one off – and in December Statement date corrected to 10/12/10 again, so customer thought things had sorted themselves out.

Then January 2011 Statement was delayed 4 days issued on the 15/01/11. This resulted in a complaint to Cahoot Call Centre.

How was this noticed ?
The customer looked to obtain the maximum interest free period on their card every month so the customer knows that if they carry out transactions from the 10th of each month, for example, 10th August 2010 -they aren't processed till after the statement is generated on the 11th August 2010 at 1800hrs, so don't appear until the following month - ie. 46 days interest free, statement 11/08/2010-10/09/2010 – September statement generated at 1800hrs on 11th September 2010.

From what customer can gain from conversation with Cahoot Manager, Santander applied a varying 'Window' to the Statement Date (this breach their terms see below) and delayed statements to include any payments currently in the ‘system’.

If for example the statement date was the 10th of each month eg. 10th August 2010
New Statement generated 11/08/2010, covering dates 11/07/10-10/08/10

Under new system , the statement date - 11th now becomes a 'Window' of dates -if the customer has transaction made on the 10th 11th 12th, the statement will be delayed to include these transactions. Currently 4 days is the longest delay experienced by customer.

For example, If Customer spent £800 between 11/12/10 -09/01/11. Additionally, spends £100 on 10th January 2011, £50 on the 11th £50 on the 12th.

The statement will come out on the 15th January 2011 instead of the 11th, but include £200 more in transactions, which under the previous system of fixed statement date, wouldn't have been due until the statement generated on the 11th February 2011, but the full higher total amount £1000 is now payable in 13 days time on 28th January 2011.

This means the customer may have a bill for £1000 instead of £800 (under old fixed statement date system), the customer (statistically this would appear the case) may then decide not to pay the bill in full and only pay a part payment.

This may also result in an additional £12 overlimit fee on the January statement by including transactions that wouldn’t have been due until the statement generated on the 11th February 2011 as well as subsequent monthly interest until balance is cleared.

In the worse case - If the customer had part paid £800 that month- the customer is then still charged the interest on the all transactions from the transaction date to the payment received date 28th January 2011, where previously, a payment of £800 would have been classed as a full payment and cleared the bill, where the statement had been issued at the correct time on the 11th (under old fixed system) and no interest would have been payable.

This would amount to an additional roughly £20 per customer in interest that Santander are charging incorrectly in the particular scenario. (45 days at 15.95% on £1000)

Various Scenarios.
The change from a fixed statement date to a Statement Window , results in:
A customer receiving a larger credit card statement balance that month than would have been due.

A potential to pay large amounts of interest , that the customer might have otherwise paid no interest.

An addition of an overlimit fee of £12, if these additional payments took the customer over their credit limit due to receiving a larger credit card statement balance that month than would have been due.

This change is in clear breach of their terms and conditions, and Cahoot/Santander are clearly operating outside these terms having a Statement Window rather than a fixed Statement Date.

[FONT=&quot]Extract from the[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Cahoot[/FONT][FONT=&quot]General terms and conditions. Term ‘statement period’ is defined in plain English within the terms as ‘Commencing on your statement date and ending on the preceding date in the following month’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.cahoot.com/terms/pdf/terms.pdf[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]

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statement date means the date you receive (electronically) your [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cahoot[/FONT][FONT=&quot]credit[/FONT][FONT=&quot]card[/FONT][FONT=&quot]account,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]cahoot[/FONT][FONT=&quot]flexible loan or[/FONT][FONT=&quot]cahoot[/FONT][FONT=&quot]current account statement.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

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statement period means the period commencing on your statement date and ending on the preceding date in the following month. For example, if your statement date is the 10 Januarythe statement period will end on the 9 February.[/FONT]

SoFarSoGood_3

In a different vein to but still on this thread, today I got two pfishing e-mails, evidently generated from abroad. One with my name on it, which is understandable, but the other had my husband's name which is not! The only source of my husbands name would be Santander. This is particularly easy to identify as he does not use his registered christian name except on official documents. The only such documents on my P.C. are our banking details.

Although I use my P.C. a great deal, I am very careful and despite being with the same provider for several years, I haven't had any spam, junk mail or pfishing mails until Alliance and Leicester were taken over by Santander. About a month after this, I started to get a trickle of junk mail, but never previously has any been addressed to my husband. Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing? The implications are worrying at best.

scarlet-pimpernel

I closed 2 A&L accounts in August after they were taken over by Santander am am still waiting for the closing statements. I wonder who got them?

One account was online and is still there as being open!

I was told I had to visit an A&L branch to do this and it took over an hour. They messed it up and had to pay me in cash when I asked for an electronic transfer to my First Direct account which was already registered with them as the linked account.

Rather a nervous walk up the High Street to HSBC with a fat envelope.

sailorboy

Since Santander took over my A&L account they have sent my credit card, debit cards, PIN numbers and deposit book to wrong addresses, the postcode was correct but that's all. Now I've lost £1,400.00 from my account and my account is frozen. I spent a morning in both of their Perth branches trying to get some action. When I got home there was a letter from Santander telling me to visit my local branch to chose a new account. I did, I'm moving to First Direct.

tenerifetogo

Be careful all MSE fans.To coincide with this adverse publicity, I have received several scam e-mails from a Santander look-a-like requesting that I update my personal details by logging on to a false website.

ticketcollector

I used to have 3 accounts with abbey. Closed them all 4 years ago, it shows closed on the account system. Yet out of the blue I recently got some statements for the accounts from santander!!

suel328

Getting no where with the branch so I wrote a letter of complaint to Santander, guess what, I have got £100 goodwill gesture credited to my account. However still worry about it so I decided to move my account elsewhere.

maiseymoo_2

I had a letter from Santander last November telling me not to use or pay into my credit card as it had been involved in the 'printing error' I rang them and they apologised and said that they couldn't get my details up as it was in the system to be changed to a new account number. They said they would send new account details, numbers, cards in 10 days. Never recieved them, rang again, they said the same as the previous agent and told me to ring back in 3 days to confirm that the new account was set up. I rang back, (by now I had a missed a payment date.. no statement or account number, where do I pay?) this agent told me to go online and look for a tab to click saying that I accepted all terms and conditions!!!? No account number.....??? Get real, as if I was going to do that, I want paper proof of things before I sign anythoing. He told me to ring back in 3 days!! I rang back, they gave me a new acoount number online and told me that they would send out new cards and a statemet within 10 days... not recieved. Now what, I have missed 2 monthly payments, I have not recieved any correspondence from them and I dont know what to do. I have visions of balliffs turning up for the balance, yet I have no statement to pay and no proof that the new account number they gave me over the phone is genuine. Oh, and they also informed me that they could not log my phone calls as the system wouldn't allow them! Any advice, anyone?