Cylists without lights - disproportionately annoys me!!

Azari

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

It would give cyclists far more moral right to use the road

Cyclists already have an absolute legal and moral right to use the roads.

Blobby8_2

Azari wrote: »

Cyclists already have an absolute legal and moral right to use the roads.

No , just a legal right IMO

Azari

Blobby8 wrote: »

No , just a legal right IMO

Yeah, well, if you want to be daft anyone can say that people have no moral right to drive cars since they pollute and kill thousands.

The 'moral' in 'moral right' is not a global absolute.

Harry_Flashman

Azari wrote: »

Yeah, well, if you want to be daft anyone can say that people have no moral right to drive cars since they pollute and kill thousands.

The 'moral' in 'moral right' is not a global absolute.

Blooby had the sense to say IMO 'cos that's all we have here - opinions.

Mine is that those who pay their way have a greater moral right to use the road than those who freeload - but it's just an opinion and it's as likely to change (or make a difference) as your is.

Do you have irrefutable evidence (not just opinion - yours or someone elses) that car emissions kill thousands?

esuhl

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

Do you have irrefutable evidence (not just opinion - yours or someone elses) that car emissions kill thousands?

Define "irrefutable".

Would you accept that smoking tobacco is bad for your health? There is (depending on your definition) no irrefutable evidence that shows this (as I understand it), only a large number of studies that demonstrate correlations between the amount of tobacco smoked and the statistical probability of suffering from a number of illnesses/conditions.

Similarly, there are a large number of studies that conclude that there is a correlation between air pollution and premature death. You may dispute the numbers involved, but it seems clear from what I've read that even the conservative estimates are far greater than a mere "few thousand" deaths. It seems that there are many thousands of deaths per year and in the UK alone!

There's quite a lot of information available via search engines:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22air+pollution%22+correlated+OR+correlation+OR+cause+deaths

Azari

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

Blooby had the sense to say IMO 'cos that's all we have here - opinions.

Mine is that those who pay their way have a greater moral right to use the road than those who freeload - but it's just an opinion and it's as likely to change (or make a difference) as your is.

Well done.

You have just paraphrased "The 'moral' in 'moral right' is not a global absolute."

Have a banana.

Do you have irrefutable evidence (not just opinion - yours or someone elses) that car emissions kill thousands?

I didn't say that pollution kills thousands.

Cars pollute and cars kill thousands each year.

They also take up large amounts of space on our streets and consume valuable land for parking that could otherwise be used for homes.

This is why motorists are expected to pay more than the superficial costs of driving.

And why cyclists aren't taxed over and above that collected on costs of their equipment and consumables. (And if you don't like it, tough titty. :rotfl:)

Harry_Flashman

Oh, I realise that these lycra clad monstrosities will continue to freeload and I also realise that I won't give them the same respect as someone who is paying their way.

bob_a_builder

Yes, but what about cyclists who ride with out lights....

What can be done to encourage them to buy/use them, since it seems a sense of self preservation hasn't done so for most yet !

Azari

Harry_Flashman wrote: »

Oh, I realise that these lycra clad monstrosities will continue to freeload and I also realise that I won't give them the same respect as someone who is paying their way.

So you don't like it?

But you have to lump it?

How sad for you.

rev_henry

bob_a_builder wrote: »

Yes, but what about cyclists who ride with out lights....

What can be done to encourage them to buy/use them, since it seems a sense of self preservation hasn't done so for most yet !

Fixed penalty notices, and being made to walk home. Same with cyclists on the pavement. In my uni freshers week we had a 'safety talk' from a PCSO, who amongst other things said in as many words 'please do not cycle on the pavement or we will issue you with a £30 fine.' Have I ever heard of or seen this happening? Have I heck as like...