Ground Source Heat Pumps

captainhindsight_2

snowcat75 wrote: »

Strange attitude, Simple mathematics denotes that RHI payments simply do not work for myself, the capital expenditure (with the est 75% return) vs the compounded interest even at a mere 2.38%, with an average oil price vs the higher electric use completely blows getting an installed system fitted. by the tune of several thousand actually working on a 20 year model.


Not saying RHI doesn't work for some, or its not a bad thing, but working on straight capital regain on seven years is a figure that is hard to stack on a 20 year model.


If you really don't believe me I can soon show some calcs.


Love GSHP, Thanks in the new year I'm going to have a bit more of a look at the real cost of installation, At the moment in the UK I feel there's a bit of snake oil frenzy happing due to the sub, which is unfair on the genuine company's.

Yes I would like to see the calculations

snowcat75

GSHP £20000, (not including groundwork's) so lets say capital expense £21000
RHI £2300 x7=16100
electric £900 annual.


So over 20 years,


Capital expenditure £21000
Electric £18000
RHI - £16100

Total cost over 20 years £22900


vs existing system,






kero costs 1500ltsx £0.60= £900 (with mild winters Iv only been using around a 1000 and I actually bought kero at 0.47 this year)


900x20=18000 (20 years)


Electric costs £190 per annum (working on a maximum start up load of 150 watts and a running time of average 3hrs a day 365 days a year summer of course being practically nill use, winter of course more)


£190x20=£3800




Servicing £8 annually for a new nozzle on my current boiler.


£8x20=£160


Over 20 years


Oil £18000
Electric £3800
Service £160


Total Cost £21960


Then take the compounded interest on £20K at 2.38% over 7 years at £3575


so £21960-£3575 brings the cost down to £18,385


GSHP Total Cost £22,900
Kero Cost £18,385


I make that £4515 difference.


Now a couple of points, I put no capital expenditure for a new oil fired boiler, simple I have a 16 year old non condensing boiler, condensing boilers are about 15% more efficient so actually the savings on fuel would pay for the boiler in 10 years and the overall figure would look better on a 20 year model.


Second point I would have course have staged money coming back from the RHI so would have the ability to earn interest on that, however I could have worked at a better AER figure if Id tied the money up for 7 years.


Finally I'm sure you could point out that oil prices could go sky high, but also equally electric could.


Its also worth a note that I have a wood burner which never gets lit, (wood costing me nothing) so if I was to use that I could probably shave a 1/3 on my overall fuel usage.

lovesgshp

What size heatpump are you talking about Snowcat, as £20000 looks like about 20Kw+ excluding the excavation?

captainhindsight_2

I was thinking the same.

Based on the rhi income and the estimated oil use (both figures suggest a different heat demand) but suggest around a 10kW heat pump which does not cost £20k! Lol.

The figures don't make sencce as the suggested rhi income suggests a bigger heat demand than the suggested oil use so of course the oil boiler is going to be cheaper because in your calculations the oil is producing less heat than the heat pump... Lol

snowcat75

heat pump is 8kw NIBE which actually googles at £4k, so materials I cant imagine would come in any more than £10k tops at a practical guess.


Pump would go into garage and then be plumbed directly into the existing circuit via the hot water tank (although the tails would be split).


All trenching including lifting the block paving and making good inside the house to be done by me.


So where does the extra 10k go? Trades I reckon on £200 per day that's circa to 50 man days?..

lovesgshp

WOW!!!
2-3 days for a plumber, 1/2 -1 day for a electrician is what we base on a installation.
I am going to look at a project tomorrow, which is a 14Kw IVT HE, with a 500ltr DHW tank. Works out @ approx 17.5k Euro, so approx £14K plus 10% vat.

captainhindsight_2

I think you need to get a few more quotes, you should be getting a system like that for around £10-14k inc VAT @ 5%

Patrol

Re companies still being around. 8 years down the line my supplier is still in business so far as I'm aware (Ice Energy). I haven't had any dealings with them since installation, thanks to the helpful advice given here.

In terms of price, my IVT E6 system cost me something like 6.5k but had a 1.5k cash subsidy reducing it back to about 5k. That covered supply & commission, with my plumber doing the install. Has RHI knocked that approach on the head?

Trenchwork took a few hours with a JCB and a few hours laying the pipe. After a pressure test a few days later it was backfilled.

I got one plumbers bill for the heat pump and everything else in a new build so can't help in regards of installation costs.

captainhindsight_2

Patrol wrote: »

Re companies still being around. 8 years down the line my supplier is still in business so far as I'm aware (Ice Energy). I haven't had any dealings with them since installation, thanks to the helpful advice given here.

In terms of price, my IVT E6 system cost me something like 6.5k but had a 1.5k cash subsidy reducing it back to about 5k. That covered supply & commission, with my plumber doing the install. Has RHI knocked that approach on the head?

Trenchwork took a few hours with a JCB and a few hours laying the pipe. After a pressure test a few days later it was backfilled.

I got one plumbers bill for the heat pump and everything else in a new build so can't help in regards of installation costs.

Our of interest have you done your legacy rhi application? Many people don't realize they can do it if they have already received the rhpp

Patrol

I did enquire but as my installation was completed before 2009 was told it was not valid. i'm fairly sure the £1500 I got back was part of the scheme before that.