Ground Source Heat Pumps

lovesgshp

Leave 4.1 as it is at the moment, but monitor GT1 during the day. The variation should start to reduce. We can change settings later if required.

matelodave

I've been reading the last dozen or so threads with keen interest - it just goes to show that you need a good understanding of how a heat-pump system should be configured and used to optimise it and make sure it's working properly.
It illustrates very well how a poorly set up system or one that's not being used correctly can easily end up using the back-up heater more than the pump.
Mines an air source unit by Daikin and doesn't have as many tweaks or adjustments as the one being discussed (or none that I can get to) but it still took me two winters to get it optimised. I'm not sure it's perfect but I'm quite happy with how it performs and have now stopped tweaking it.

Please keep it going and report back on what's happening as I'd like to see how well a few adjustments improve the system efficiency and hopefully reduce the running costs.

RickMoney

matelodave wrote: »

I've been reading the last dozen or so threads with keen interest - it just goes to show that you need a good understanding of how a heat-pump system should be configured and used to optimise it and make sure it's working properly.
It illustrates very well how a poorly set up system or one that's not being used correctly can easily end up using the back-up heater more than the pump.
Mines an air source unit by Daikin and doesn't have as many tweaks or adjustments as the one being discussed (or none that I can get to) but it still took me two winters to get it optimised. I'm not sure it's perfect but I'm quite happy with how it performs and have now stopped tweaking it.

Please keep it going and report back on what's happening as I'd like to see how well a few adjustments improve the system efficiency and hopefully reduce the running costs.

Indeed!

What worries me, is that if LovesGSHP was not so generous with his spare time to assist with installations that need this tweeking, then people would be stuck with systems that are costing a lot.

Do companies not provide these levels of support and aftercare as part of a regulation or requirement?

I would hope they come back after a couple of months to read the error/report log and make some tweaks as necessary and then provide further back up support by phone.

Anyone know if any companies do this?

Rick

lovesgshp

Thanks Matelodave and Rickmoney for the comments and I do hope that I can help with the issues. It is quite difficult from a 1000 miles away, as against standing in front of the unit!!!
I must admit, that in the number of years of dealing with these units, I have had less than a handfull of problems.
Hopefully, we can resolve the above quickly.

lovesgshp

Akmodi and Encap. Any updates, negative or positive??

encap

Hi Lovesgshp,

Sorry for keeping you that long with updates.

I monitored the pump for the last week and although I haven't noticed any huge difference in money saving, the house is warm enough. Few things I would like to ask about:
Is there a way of setting the DHW to go on twice a day(twice for any given 24h). I don't need hot water 24/7 and I think it is high on electricity when on all the time. I noticed in 4.3 that there is possibility of to set small or capital letter for the weekdays. I use only the Capital, what if I set some times for the small one(now there is 00.00 - 00.00)? What's that for?
Also I set the DHW for the last night to go on only between 7 and 8 in the morning today and I noticed higher than normal usage of electricity, if I could set the DHW to go on twice a day for a few hours that would be great.
Another think I'd like to ask what is the electricity usage for the HP I have when on stand by? Cause at the moment it uses around 50-60kWh per 24hrs including ufh, radiators heating and DHW. |I would be happy to go below 40.

Just one more thing, is there a way of setting the temp at which the DHW will go on to heat the water up to target 51C? For example when it reaches 51C it goes off and goes on again after some time, I don't actually know when it goes on again but I would like to set the DHW to go on and heat the water up to 51C again only when the temperature of water in the tank drops below i.e. 30C. I hope you understand. Thanks for all the help.

lovesgshp

encap wrote: »

Hi Lovesgshp,

Sorry for keeping you that long with updates.

I monitored the pump for the last week and although I haven't noticed any huge difference in money saving, the house is warm enough. Few things I would like to ask about:
Is there a way of setting the DHW to go on twice a day(twice for any given 24h). I don't need hot water 24/7 and I think it is high on electricity when on all the time. I noticed in 4.3 that there is possibility of to set small or capital letter for the weekdays. I use only the Capital, what if I set some times for the small one(now there is 00.00 - 00.00)? What's that for?
Small is only to show no timer action, whereas the Capital means the timer is activated.
Also I set the DHW for the last night to go on only between 7 and 8 in the morning today and I noticed higher than normal usage of electricity, if I could set the DHW to go on twice a day for a few hours that would be great.
Unfortunately, the timer only has the one setting. You need to look at the hot water peak and check how many days it is set to increase. 51C is factory setting, so perhaps drop to 48C.
Another think I'd like to ask what is the electricity usage for the HP I have when on stand by? Cause at the moment it uses around 50-60kWh per 24hrs including ufh, radiators heating and DHW. |I would be happy to go below 40.
On standby, there would only be the circulating pumps operating. Is the 50-60kwh usage for the whole house?

Just one more thing, is there a way of setting the temp at which the DHW will go on to heat the water up to target 51C? For example when it reaches 51C it goes off and goes on again after some time, I don't actually know when it goes on again but I would like to set the DHW to go on and heat the water up to 51C again only when the temperature of water in the tank drops below i.e. 30C. I hope you understand.
There is a heat hysterisis on both the DHW and heating system. This is about 4C, so when the DHW drops to below 49C, then the pump switches on to reheat and the temp will probably rise to 53-55C. It is a dual skinned tank, so it is the outer skin that gets the hottest to supply your DHW needs, but the sensor is in the inner tank.
Thanks for all the help.

No problem with helping out.
Can you supply the info I asked for earlier, re room temp influence and the filter cleaning?
Also once again, the operating times and the GT1-GT11 settings in heating mode.
Thanks

encap

Yes, that 50-60kWh is for the whole house, but in our previous place we usually used about 10kWh per 24hrs, when watching tv, cooking, using pc etc. We have cfl bulbs installed in the house so I think that the majority of that usage comes from the HP.
As for the sensors reading:
I monitor that daily and will update you with the latest next time when the pump will go on, but the main thing is that the room temp is now stabilised at around 19-19.6C while it is set to be 20C.(my question here, as I am happy with the house temp can I lower the set temp to 19C and will that put the HP to stop or just the room temp will drop as well to 18C?)
I believe it reaches the target 20C, but I am not around at the time it finishes in the morning. What surprises me is that the pump goes on during the day as well, I thought it is set to go on only during time specified in 4.1, but that's not the case. So it goes on couple of times a day only for about 15 minutes or so. What's more interesting when the DHW is turned off in the timer and the HP goes on during the day it heats the DHW tank as well, does that consume more electricity this way?

The pump just went on, so I think I will be able to give you the most recent readings:
GT1: Off 28.1C Now 23.9C
GT2: 8.0C
GT3: Tgt: 51C Now 39.2C
GT4: Tgt: 25.6C Now 23.6C
GT5: Tgt: 20C Now 19C
GT6: 45C
GT8: 43.6C
GT9: 37.1C
GT10: 8.8C
GT11: 6.8C

7.1 12529h
7.2 47% 53%
7.3 1344h

Just to note, HP goes on for about 8h on average daily, while additional heat has gone down to 3-4h, on one occasion it din't go on at all for one day.

As for the filter I prefer not touch anything, I am not the owner of the house and if I get some kind step by step tutorial I may have a look at this. Is it available online with some images? Is this similar to the washing machine filter clean? Thanks

lovesgshp

encap wrote: »

Yes, that 50-60kWh is for the whole house, but in our previous place we usually used about 10kWh per 24hrs, when watching tv, cooking, using pc etc. We have cfl bulbs installed in the house so I think that the majority of that usage comes from the HP.
Pump will use about 2-3Kwh during its operating times. I do not know what type of heating you had in your pevious house, but you have to consider how much you spent on that as well in the equation.
As for the sensors reading:
I monitor that daily and will update you with the latest next time when the pump will go on, but the main thing is that the room temp is now stabilised at around 19-19.6C while it is set to be 20C.(my question here, as I am happy with the house temp can I lower the set temp to 19C and will that put the HP to stop or just the room temp will drop as well to 18C?)
Yes, you can lower to 19C. I need to know the room sensor influence, as this can effect operating times. Here we are set at 18.5C, with sensor at level 7.
I believe it reaches the target 20C, but I am not around at the time it finishes in the morning. What surprises me is that the pump goes on during the day as well, I thought it is set to go on only during time specified in 4.1, but that's not the case. So it goes on couple of times a day only for about 15 minutes or so. What's more interesting when the DHW is turned off in the timer and the HP goes on during the day it heats the DHW tank as well, does that consume more electricity this way?
The pump will operate during the day, as the external sensor notices air temp changes and adjusts the heat level required. Even with the 1.5C flow reduction.

The pump just went on, so I think I will be able to give you the most recent readings:
GT1: Off 28.1C Now 23.9C
GT2: 8.0C
GT3: Tgt: 51C Now 39.2C
GT4: Tgt: 25.6C Now 23.6C
GT5: Tgt: 20C Now 19C
GT6: 45C
GT8: 43.6C
GT9: 37.1C
GT10: 8.8C
GT11: 6.8C

7.1 12529h
7.2 47% 53%
7.3 1344h

Just to note, HP goes on for about 8h on average daily, while additional heat has gone down to 3-4h, on one occasion it din't go on at all for one day.
Think we are getting there, but there will be a few more checks and adjustments, but obviously up to you, if you are happy to make a few more changes.

As for the filter I prefer not touch anything, I am not the owner of the house and if I get some kind step by step tutorial I may have a look at this. Is it available online with some images? Is this similar to the washing machine filter clean? Thanks

Thanks Encap, the readings are looking a lot better, so hopefully we can move forward even more.
Filter: This is straightforward and you will not incur any damage to the pump.
1: turn off the pump on the on/off switch.... green light will keep flashing.
2: close the filter valve above the large hexagon nut, on the ground loop inlet side. It has a stop at open, and one 90deg for close.
3: Slightly undo the hex nut, with a container underneath to start to collect the coolant that escapes and continue until it is removed. Do not worry about the fluid loss, as the expansion tank will replace it.
4: Check the filter is clean, either by removing the circlip or checking with a torch. If dirty, then you need to remove and clean.
5: Refit everything in reverse order. 15mins approx to complete.

HTH

lovesgshp

Hi Encap.

Hope you managed to check the filter. If you have the instruction manual, then it also explains how to clean it. If you do not have the manual, then send me a PM with your email address and I will send you the PDF version.

Just from looking at the figures you have given, over the last 10 days or so, then you are starting to resolve the issue.
There are 2 more simple checks, that I need you to make, just to eliminate any other factors in the operation of the pump. For these, you need to remove the front cover.
1: With the pump not operating, ( turned off) on the top left of the DHW tank, there is a small brass venting screw. Open this slowly and either air or water will start to escape. If air, then wait for the water and then close.
2: When the pump is operating. At the very bottom right hand side, there is a sight glass for the refrigerant. Check if there are air bubbles running through this after the pump has been operating for about 5 mins or so.
(Bubbles will show initialy, but should disappear after a few mins of running).
HTH.