Conveyancing.. are my solicitors rubbish?

knighty76

Hi all,

I'm right at the very beginning of the house-buying process.. I'm a first time buyer and I'm totally new to this. I'm wondering if my experience so far has been typical, or if people are being a bit rubbish. I agreed a price with the Vendor, via their estate agent of course, on Monday. I went to see my Mortgage Broker (who is excellent) on the same day and before the close of business we had submitted the Mortgage application in full (including the request for the valuation to be carried out) and instructed a local solicitor to carry out my conveyancing. The mortgage broker passed my details on to the solicitor that same night.

Basically, it's Thursday and from what I can see the solicitor has done nothing. I have not received a single phone call from them, nor do I know the name of the person who will be handling my case. I contacted the solicitor on the Tuesday to confirm they had been appointed and they were not even aware of my purchase yet.. they had not built their file, so I gave them my details. The next day, I contacted the estate agent to see if my solicitor had been in touch.. they had not. I therefore provided the estate agent with contact details for my solicitor, something which my solicitor had not informed me I would need to do. I assumed since they had been given the seller's estate agent details they would initiate contact.

I've already run into some difficulties. The seller's estate agent refused to remove the property from the market.. they do not do this apparently until the surveyor carrying out my valuation contacts them for access. In the meantime they have been showing the property. I've spent the whole day today ringing around to try and get the surveyor to make that phone call to the sellers' estate agent.. having to call my Mortgage broker, calling the Mortgage company and finally calling the surveyors direct. All this whilst the estate agent was showing the house to people THIS AFTERNOON, with more viewings tomorrow and Saturday!! All this after accepting my offer! I've been pretty nervous.. at this stage I don't know how committed I am financially, plus I want that house!

I tried to approach the solicitor for help.. their secretary basically blocked me from speaking to the actual solicitor. They advised that my issue does not fall within their remit.. odd given that they would be unlikely to receive my full fee if the sale fell through. But they were not interested in the slightest. I asked if they had made contact with the sellers' solicitor or estate agent yet.. they said that it was down to the sellers' side to initiate things.

From reading elsewhere I am under the impression that a good solicitor will act as the hub during the whole process. I know the process is slow, but I would have at least hoped for a phone call, an introduction to the person who will be handling my case, and maybe a brief outline of the process. So far I have been handling all parties myself. Today was probably just the beginning.. my Mortgage broker and I have sorted out todays' issue. If I hadn't acted there's a good chance I wouldn't be getting the house. But with respect to my solicitor.. not a sausage so far, not even a call.

Should I fire them and seek a new conveyancer? Or am I expecting too much? As I say, I'm new to this process but for 800-odd quid I would at least expect to be able to speak to the person handling my case. I provided credit card details to the solicitor, via my Mortgage broker, to cover their initial £200 charge.. this has not yet come off my card. If I decide to go elsewhere, will I be liable for this? So far they haven't done anything to earn it..

Cheers all,
Richard.

Vickicb

knighty76 wrote:

I therefore provided the estate agent with contact details for my solicitor, something which my solicitor had not informed me I would need to do. I assumed since they had been given the seller's estate agent details they would initiate contact.

As I understand it the process is as follows:

The EA should request solicitors details from you once your offer is accepted. They then prepare a Memorandum of Sale with the details of Vendor and Purchaser, and both parties solicitors. This is sent to all parties.

When the Solicitor receives this s/he will send you paperwork to complete which you return with a cheque for searches. This is the point you have formally instructed them.

The sellers solicitor forwards a draft contract and title to the buyers solicitor. At this point the buyers solicitor can instruct searches.

knighty76 wrote:

I've already run into some difficulties. The seller's estate agent refused to remove the property from the market.. they do not do this apparently until the surveyor carrying out my valuation contacts them for access.

Most EA's will remove it from the market once the chain is confirmed, including the FTB in the chain having an AIP. A buyer should really make it a condition of the offer that the house is removed from the market for a certain number of weeks in order to instruct surveys and searches. My EA gives people 2 weeks to pay search fees, or it goes back on the market.

knighty76 wrote:

I tried to approach the solicitor for help.. their secretary basically blocked me from speaking to the actual solicitor. They advised that my issue does not fall within their remit.. odd given that they would be unlikely to receive my full fee if the sale fell through. But they were not interested in the slightest.

Yes, they are correct, it is not in their remit. These types of negotiations are between buyer and seller, with the EA as the intermediary. It is what the EA gets their fee for.

knighty76 wrote:

I asked if they had made contact with the sellers' solicitor or estate agent yet.. they said that it was down to the sellers' side to initiate things.

Again, this is correct, see above.

knighty76 wrote:

From reading elsewhere I am under the impression that a good solicitor will act as the hub during the whole process. I know the process is slow, but I would have at least hoped for a phone call, an introduction to the person who will be handling my case, and maybe a brief outline of the process. So far I have been handling all parties myself. Today was probably just the beginning.. my Mortgage broker and I have sorted out todays' issue. If I hadn't acted there's a good chance I wouldn't be getting the house. But with respect to my solicitor.. not a sausage so far, not even a call.

It is really the EA who acts as the hub of the process, not the solicitor. You should have received the initial paperwork from them but will not get this unless the EA have sent them the memorandum of sale. It is the EA you need to chase on this, so perhaps you need to do that first thing tomorrow.

Good luck with it all!

knighty76

Thanks Vickicb for the thorough reply, really appreciate it.

I kind of figured they were correct about these issues not being within their remit.. I guess I'm just disappointed that after agreeing to part with 800 of my most hard-earned nickers I didn't even get a phone call! It would have been nice if somebody could have outlined the process for me.

My main problem has been with the sellers' EA. It appears now that my Mortgage Provider's chosen surveyor has contacted the EA three times in the last two days to try and arrange access, but the EA is dodging their calls and has not replied. I can only assume that the EA wanted to continue showing people the property in the hope of getting a higher sale price.. my accepted offer was a fair bit below the asking price. This also probably explains why the EA has not been forthcoming in outlining the process to me and did not request my solicitors' details.. they wish to drag things out.

Cheers again! Hopefully, touch wood and fingers crossed, that should be that, pending the survey and other bits. In the end I called the EA's booking clerk direct and forwarded their call to the surveyors!! But the EA promises me now they won't be giving any more viewings. Guess I'll have to roll up my sleeves and get involved!

Debt_Free_Chick

Has your solicitor sent you "Terms of Business" or "Terms of Engagement" for you to sign and return?

And have you provided the proof of identity?

They can't do anything without these ....

vij1366

Hi Sorry To Hear Of This Nightmare.i Am Just Selling My House And Thank God Thst My Ea Is Excellant They Have Handled Everything They Do A Start To Finish So I Dont Do The Running Aroun ,basically They Have Appointed A Sols From Thier Books Who Has Rec Details From The Ea Of Everything,ythe Sols Rang Up And Asked For Me To Send Them Details Of The Land Deeds And Fill In Some Forms To Pass On To The Other Sides Sols ,this Is Also Conveyed Back To The Ea Progress Chaser Who Does All The Leg Work For Me By Chasing Up The Sosl A Etc And To Make Sure Te Sale Is Proceedding .
I Suggest U Go And Have A Serious Chat With The Ea As The Ea Has To Take The House Off The Market For A Couple Of Weeks To Ensure The Searches Are Done .they Should Not Be Showing Others Around ,this Is A Code Of Conduct With All Ea S .from What I Have Read It Seems The Ea Not Reputable As They Have Their Heart Set Out To Get As Much Commision Fromthe Sale Of This House So They Have No Lack Of Honour.
Keeping Nagging Three Or Four Times A Day With Uour Sols To Get Him To Move Things And As For Not Seeing U Advise Him This Is Not Propfessional And If He Doent Want Your Busines U Will Go Else Where And Also Report Hom To The Sols Bar That Should Shake Him Up.

Vickicb

It sounds like the EA has been holding things up deliberately pending viewings already booked in to see if they can get a higher price for the house. This is totally unreasonable and bad practice as people are spending money from the moment an offer is accepted. It sounds like things are moving on OK now though.

Your solicitor MUST receive a memorandum of sale from the EA. This is the very first peice of documentation that both solicitors need before they can do anything. If you do not get a copy yourself in tomorrow morning's post then call them and tell them you want it to be sent out first class tomorrow morning to all parties.

Good luck!

MegS

vij1366 you say at the bottom that the OP should nag their sols to get things moving and they are not being professoinal - the sols haven't even received the memorandum of sale from the estate agents yet. The EA are showing the property to other interested buyers, the vendor refuses to take the property off the market and the EA are dodging all phone calls to arrange a survey. Quite obviously the vendor is hoping for a higher offer and the EA is making this possible by arranging the other viewings. The solicitor will not want to waste time writing letters to the vendor's solicitors when quite obviously the vendor is not sure yet that they are going to sell to the OP. Nagging the solicitors three or four times a day is not going to move anything further as there is nothing to move further. Until the vendor has decided it definitely wants to sell to the OP and allows their surveyor to have an appointment and the EA sends out a memorandum of sale making it official nothing is happening - it is not a transaction.

Vickicb

We posted at the same time MegS, and I totally agree. It is the EA and possibly the vendor at fault here, NOT the solicitor, who no doubt will have a huge caseload of people at the moment wanting to be in for christmas and like you say will not want to waste time writing letters that may be pointless.

knighty76

Thanks everyone for your replies, it helps to hear from people in the know..

Debt_Free_Chick
Thanks! My solicitor actually posted out the "Terms and Conditions of Instructions" which I am debating whether to complete, or go elsewhere. They actually include a section about excessive phone calls from customers, warning that a surcharge may apply if I mither them too much! Quite frankly, for my 800-nicker-and-rising I would expect a certain amount of mitherability.

The costs seem to be rising each time I receive correspondance, too. The initial "all inclusive" £818 quid for my £112k house does apparently not include £50 + VAT for Inland Revenue Tax Return, and on the questionnaire I have the further option of requesting an Environmental Search for another £50 + VAT. Their charge is approaching £1k now.. seems like a lot.

The Vendors' EA has definitely been playing games with me.. I can only hope that no offers come in from people who have viewed the house up to and including yesterday. The EA was hiding behind the excuse of keeping the house on the market until they were confident in seeing me as a serious buyer.. fair enough. But I jumped through hoops for them.. I had copies of my Agreement in Principle faxed to them, I submitted my Mortgage application in full on the SAME DAY we agreed a price, requested the survey and appointed a solicitor, and I made my broker available to them for any questions. It is quite clear they were only after a higher price by continuing to show the property.

My point I think is that if the vendor was not sure that they wanted to sell to me, they shouldn't have agreed to my offer!!!

Not to worry though, my surveyor has booked in to value the property on Monday so hopefully things can move along quite quickly! It's a nice house so it should be worth the effort with any luck. Here's touching wood for the hope of being in a bit before christmas!!

Would you expect the EA to be put off if I decided to change solicitors for conveyancing? I'm not really bothered about annoying them, they deserve it. I'm pretty sure nothing has been sent out yet, but I don't want to give the impression of slowing things down and I don't want to give them any excuse to pull out of the deal.

Cheers everyone!!! And best of luck with your respective property-related adventures!!

WestonDave

The SDLT return is usually charged extra - its a relatively recent form that is a lot more complex than the old stamp duty system and when it came in most solicitors adopted this practice of loading £50 on the bill for the extra work.

The Enviro search is optional and as such is never included in quotes for comparison purposes - it covers stuff like local geology (subsidence risk) flood plains, land fill, industry nearby - can be quite interesting but because its based on a flat 500m radius system it can throw up things that are irrelevant - like tell you you are near a flood plain when in fact you are at the top of a hill towering above it, or you are near a landfill, only to realise that its the other side of a valley so no danger of run off etc.

Save your "mithering" quota for when you need it - most solicitors will tell you when something is happening and not bother wasting time when there isn't. Think about it - if they waste time telling you nothing is happening, they can't be getting on with someone elses work - give it a month and you'll want them head down in your file not sending out pointless letters to other people with nothing in them!

knighty76

Cheers everyone, this forum truly rocks!

But in the words of Columbo.. just one more thing. Would you lot recommend the Envornmental search? I've been told that it makes for an interesting read, but if that's what I was after I'd spend £4.99 at Waterstones..

May be worthwile though.. the house I am (hopefully) buying has clean water in the cellar. If left, the natural level rises very slightly above the concrete floor in the cellar, causing 1inch puddles. The owners have a sump and pump system fitted.. not an uncommon solution I think. The house is Victorian, so I would imagine that if this posed a structural risk the thing would have fallen down by now! I would also hope that my survey would turn up any serious associated issues.

Given that, do you think I should pay the 50 quids plus VAT to get it done?

Cheers again, this is by a mile the most useful forum I've visited. :beer:

Rich.