Damp. Where do I stand with council as a leaseholder?

snaps22

In 2006 I bought an ex-council flat on the open market with a buy-to-let mortgage. It has been rented out 4 times since.

My most recent tenant moved in in October and by early December after heavy snow the flat has been plagued by mildew and damp, especially in the bedroom.

There was no damp there previously and it looks above and beyond what one would expect from poor ventilation and further investigation is necessary to see what is causing it.

The flat is leasehold and the local council hold the freehold on the building. I tried to phone the council early December to get a surveyor round to look. I was told that they only had one part-time surveyor who was over run with work due to bad weather and it would be some considerable time before he would get to me.

I lent the tenant a dehumidifier and reduced the rent to enable her to run it as she has limited means.

I contacted the council again who said they now had no surveyor and would be employing two new ones in the new year. I would be on a list for a scheduled visit. Then of course Christmas has come along office staff are on holiday and my tenant has now phoned to say she is fed up with the mould and damp and that she is to start looking for somewhere else to live. This is going to leave me with an empty flat that I won't be able to rent out until the damp problem is sorted out. I can't afford for it to be empty.

The council have been very unhelpful and I have had to be persistent to get a surveyors appointment. Really though there has been little progress. If I owned the freehold, I would have done something about it by now but as the council own the freehold, I don't know where to go from here.

If anyone has any thoughts on how I can get the council to act on this or can point me in the right direction with some advice then I'd be grateful.
Many thanks in advance

real1314

Some advcie here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/leasehold_repairs

and here:-

http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=7

tbs624

OP - you say that there have previously been no damp issues. This suggests that T lifestyle *may* be the cause unless there is a building maintenance issue. Many LLs are familair with the fact that you can have a number of lets where everything is fine, and then a change of T brings with it the conditions you describe.

Presumably you have personally checked already for things like cracked rendering/missing pointing, leaky gutters etc outside?

You also say that the T has limited income. This may mean that she cannot afford to heat the property adequately: if she just has the heating on for a couple of hours a day during very cold snaps( rather than on for longer periods at a lower temp) there will be an increase in condensation.

Does she dry washing inside, steaming it all off on the radiators? Cook without using pan lids, opening windows, using fan etc? If there are extractor fans in kitchen a bathroom does she shut the door to allow them to work at their most effective?

Does she keep furniture away from walls so that air can circulate freely?

Have look here . You may want to show a copy to your T.

The property hasn't recently had cavity wall insulation put in has it?

Check all that lot , the put your requests to the Council *in writing* and make use of your local Councillor to apply some pressure if there are further delays.

Point out to them that under HHSRS, damp and mould are recognised housing hazards and that you will also ask the EHO for his/her opinion so that you can improve things for your T asap. The dehumidifier will help but the T will need to wash down walls affected by black mould - solution of Milton sterilising fluid or HG or Dettox Mould Remover or similar. You may need to replace carpets.

snaps22

Hi. Many thanks for you reply.
The first thought I had was that it was what the tenant's lifestyle so I took her information on damp and condensation and how to avoid it. The flat has a good new central heating system in there that I put in in '07. And the bedroom that is worst effected (as do most of the rooms) has an open vent that is about 9 inches square that could only be closed by taping something over it and she hadn't done that. She tells me she shuts the kitchen door when she cooks and the bathroom door etc but of course I can only take her word for that.
I lived there through a winter and there was no damp then. There are no extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom but windows that could be opened.
I have advised her to keep furniture away from walls.
I will take your advise and contact the council again in writing but excuse my ignorance, what is HHSRS?
One last question, when I write to the council, who would be the best person to direct my letter to?
Many thanks for you help on this.

tbs624

snaps22 wrote: »

I will take your advise and contact the council again in writing but excuse my ignorance, what is HHSRS?
One last question, when I write to the council, who would be the best person to direct my letter to?
Many thanks for you help on this.

Sorry HHSRS - Housing Health and Safety Rating System. We did start a list of abbreviations and acronyms - Most Councils will have a guide to the basics of it on their website - an example here

Its the Env Health Officers who advise on HHSRS and normally there's a Council Officer or two who specifically deal with "right to buy and leasehold services"

You are doing the right thing as a LL by offering info to the T, checking the property over, providing a dehumidifier, checking with your FHer etc. Do make sure that you keep proper records of your attempts to resolve the matter to protect yourself against any potential disrepair claim: you'll need to be able to show that you meet your repairing obligations under s11 of the LL&T Act 1985 etc.

££sc££

Although it may be the freeholder's responsibility to investigate, given that they don't have any surveyors employed, you could be waiting sometime, and with the tenant threatening to move out this is obviously quite an urgent problem. I think i'd employ my own surveyor to investigate. When the council do eventually send someone out, you'll end up paying part of the cost of the visit in your service charge and if they're anyhting like the surveyors I know they'll just cite 'lifestyle issue'. If your surveyor finds a building fault, you can then get this logged for repair with the freeholder, if applicable. Perhaps, not a money saving solution, but if your tenant moves out, it may be!

LadyLawyer

I agree. Get someone in and if necessary pay yourself. Delay means it will become more expensive in the long term in any case whoever pays.

c22

tbs624 wrote: »

OP - . The dehumidifier will help but the T will need to wash down walls affected by black mould - solution of Milton sterilising fluid or HG or Dettox Mould Remover or similar. You may need to replace carpets.

I would suggest the tenant is not asked to wash down the walls with anything,
under the HHSRS mould is a statutory class 1 hazard, and that is the same class as asbestos, If you are ever going to remove mould you require a P3 respirator and suitable PPE.

The problem is that if you do not remove the mould growth properly then mould spores will become airbourne and then attached there selves to other parts of the property and will make the problem worse and the problem will become worse.

One of the products mentioned above is useless against the complete eradication of mould, the reason for this is due to the fact that the main chemical is sodium hypoclorite, (Bleach) will not kill the root structure of the mould growth,
Bleach-water solution vaporizes quickly but leaves the water behind. This, in effect, doesn't dry as fast as necessary to get rid of spores. Moreover, ordinary bleaches in our households contain 5.25% sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl. This sodium hypochlorite forms hypochlorous acid or HOCl when mixed with water. Hypochlorous acid is effective against bacteria and viruses thus bleaches are used as disinfectants. Studies revealed nonetheless that the use of bleaches is not suitable for home use due to some health risks. Aside from its health hazards, its effects against moulds are not much successful due to the water, which feeds the spores, left when bleach vaporizes. If you might notice when you use bleach-water mixture to remove visible moulds on your basement or bathroom walls, the moulds usually grow back.

££sc££

C22 - Interesting post. Mine always growns back, every 6 months or so. Do you know what the best way of removing mould is? Thanks

tbs624

Thanks for your response C22. However if you are going to cut and paste info from other places its always as well to quote your source.

Some of the sites which quote the blurb you lifted also state that LLs

"are obliged under S11 of the LL & T Act 1985 to remove mould within 28 days"

or, even more erroneously,

" legally bound to clear any outbreak under section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1998."

That bit must have passed me by last time I looked at the 1985 Act......and I'll try to find time to check out the 1998 one

Most Council housing offices will give out leaflets which suggest washing down the mouldy surfaces. I would expect anyone who has a modicum of common sense to read the info on the back of the bottle or proprietary cleaners and equip themselves with appropriate protective gear.

This was not suggested as a *solution* to the damp problems but part of the whole package of working to sort out damp/condensation. The OP has already put other processes in place: it's clearly the sorting of the conditions that lead to the presence of the mould that will make the most difference.

If you google again you will probably find reference to the fact that dry brushing the mould is far more likely to create issues regarding the spread of spores.

Your comment on HHSRS suggests that you don't understand how it is applied.

Yes, asbestos appears in the same broad "hazard" Group as mould,
(and "excess cold/excess heat whilst we're at it) They are in separate sections under the heading of Physiological Hazards - asbestos as a Non-microbial Pollutant and mould as a Hygrothermal Condition. ( the other Groups are Psychological Reqmts, Protection against Infection, Protection Against Accidents)

To arrive at which "Class" the presence of a specific housing hazard would fall under involves a bit of maths involving IIRC nat averages,specific characteristics of the property, likelihood, level of risk/harm outcomes etc. For it to qualify as a Class 1 it has to have a score of 1000+

There may be someone on the board who can give you greater guidance on HHSRS hazard classes.

Mould and damp are serious issues which have a detrimental effect on many people's home lives and LLs of course have to seek resolve ( with the tenant working alongside) - which is what the OP is trying to do.

c22

I am qualified in damp and condensation in buildings. My main aspect of this work is diagnosis of mould relative issues and remedial treatment.
I am also aware of all the hazards regarding mould and the health issues.
I am a managing director of a UK mould eradication company; I also carry out laboratory mould identification of mycotoxins, and my company is also involved in litigation regarding tenant and landlord court cases for both parties.

I can also state that bleach is a COPR non approved means of removing mould.

It is not approved under Chemicals Regulation Directorate Health and Safety Executive.

There has been a recent case of a local authority advising a tenant to remove the mould using bleach, which ended with the tenant having an accident and receiving medical attention, this ended with the tenant suing the local authority.

Mould depending on the amount of mycotoxins in a property and the strain of the spores itself should never be ignored; it is a statutory class 1 hazard to health.