So now I have a solar PV system how do I make the most of it???

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I have Bosh washing and dish washing machines that are a dozen years old - The bog standard design, not some "eco" version that uses yesterday's rinse water to start today's wash.

A standard clothes wash uses just less than 60 litres (it goes into a dustbin "donated" by a cannabis farmer;) and I water the garden with the waste water. Woollens and delicates get an extra rinse) typical electrical consumption, especially when using a modern 30 degree detergent is perhaps a bit over 1 kWh as the machine is on "cold fill", and spread over more than an hour it takes to do the wash.

The dish washer used roughly half the water (ie 30 litres) and I try to avoid it excessively "cooking" the crockery in an attempt to boil off all the wetness.

Fortunately what comes onto my land tends to stay here, so I don't pay the sewerage charge that would add more than 66% to my water bill.

The economy 7 rate I pay is a marginal 4.1p plus 5% tax.
The day rate is a marginal 10.82 p plus 5% tax
[I also pay a standing charge of 37.2p per day - must review this at the end of my contract]

So my marginal cost for a clothes wash is say roughly 8p for the electricity and 8p for the water - so doing the wash in the day time is saving me 8p for the wash and another 5p - 10p to dry it using the "low heat" setting.

The dish washer must be a little less.

These figures will never add up to a fortune.

Your situation is atypical!

The point is that the cost of metered water for a washing cycle is considerably more than the electricity cost for the majority.

The cost for water/sewerage for your 60 litres on a cycle would cost most people between 15p and 30p.

So unless the washing machine/dish washer has a full load, it is a false economy to operate them to 'use up' free PV generated electricity.

Exactly the same argument applies to people with an Economy 7 tariff who operate those appliances overnight(when not full) to take advantage of off-peak electricity.

Cardew

EricMears wrote: »

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear the first time. We weren't doing any extra washing or dishwashing - just bringing forward loads that we would have had to have done some time .

That seems to me to conflict with your earlier statement:

dishwashing nearly every day instead of storing it for a full load.

EricMears

Cardew wrote: »

That seems to me to conflict with your earlier statement:

That's possibly because you seem to want(but won't be getting) chapter & verse on which items I might decide to wash when.

At no point did I say we'd been running the dishwasher almost empty - nor indeed had we.

Cardew wrote:

Your situation is atypical!

The point is that the cost of metered water for a washing cycle is considerably more than the electricity cost for the majority.

Actually, JP's situation is remarkably similar to my own in that we both have water meters but don't have to pay the huge surcharge for assumed sewage disposal and there are no doubt thousands of others who can say the same. And of course there are still many more who for one reason or another don't have their water supplies metered. Hard to see how you can make these sweeping generalisations about 'the majority' without quantifying how many people you think are in that boat.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

That seems to me to conflict with your earlier statement:

Just a friendly word of warning before you decide to go all 'Cardew' on Eric's water consumption.

You may want to read back over the threads for a couple of months to refresh your memory on Eric's water consumption levels and the advice and knowledge he's shared on water saving (possibly in discussions with Seagull or Albyota, I forget).

I thought wifey and I had low consumption at approx 70 units per year, until I saw how low Eric had got his. Let's just say there probably wouldn't be a water shortage if everyone could mimic his household.

Mart.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I thought wifey and I had low consumption at approx 70 units per year, until I saw how low Eric had got his. Let's just say there probably wouldn't be a water shortage if everyone could mimic his household.
Mart.

Thanks Martyn,

Actually, I'm sure we could probably drop it a lot more IF I put in more rainwater storage ( I reckon to use about forty cu M pa from a possible 70) then filtered it and used for everything except drinking water.

However, the cost of (say) digging up the lawn to sink a 10CuM tank, filtration equipment plus extra tanks would have a substantial cost. The current 40cuM involved a capital cost of perhaps a couple of hundred pounds and uses a couple of Kwh per week (10p/week in winter nothing this week). The (not very seriously) proposed upgrade would cost around 2 grand to save an absolute maximum of £100pa. I can't get excited about a ROI of 5% (or 20y payback for the simpler souls) so will keep 'wasting' water.

One 'extravagance' we have in water consumption is a mains tap in the greenhouse which our head gardener (aka OH) uses for watering. Just busy installing a couple more 1 tonne 'transitanks' to collect water from rooves of shed & summerhouse - but unlikely to fill them this side of Xmas. Total capital cost there was £6 for 1 tank (other was free) and about £20 for guttering. Real benefit is in tidying up garden - two unused tanks were a bit of an eyesore.

Cardew

EricMears wrote: »

That's possibly because you seem to want(but won't be getting) chapter & verse on which items I might decide to wash when.

At no point did I say we'd been running the dishwasher almost empty - nor indeed had we.



Actually, JP's situation is remarkably similar to my own in that we both have water meters but don't have to pay the huge surcharge for assumed sewage disposal and there are no doubt thousands of others who can say the same. And of course there are still many more who for one reason or another don't have their water supplies metered. Hard to see how you can make these sweeping generalisations about 'the majority' without quantifying how many people you think are in that boat.

This is what I stated:

For people with metered water supply that
might well be a false economy.

in response to your statement that you do:

dishwashing nearly every day instead of storing it for a full load.

Now the ordinary man on the Clapham omnibus might read that to imply that you are not using your dishwasher with a full load.

However I accept that you either didn't mean to imply that your dishwasher is operated with other than a full load. Or the man on the Clapham omnibus has misunderstood.

Nevertheless it is IMO sound advice to point out to readers of this thread that water costs - particularly for washing machines - can greatly exceed electricity costs.

No doubt Martin1981 will feel the need to intervene again and take charge of the thread, contributing in his usual obsequious style. Club members would expect it!

EricMears

Cardew wrote: »

No doubt Martin1981 will feel the need to intervene again and take charge of the thread, contributing in his usual obsequious style. Club members would expect it!

I don't think we've got a 'Martin1981' nor does 'Martyn1981' need to remind all of us that Cardew has a long history or reading whatever he wants into other people's posts then criticising them for it.

I'm also sure that people are rperfectly able to work out for themselves what they're paying for a particular commodity and don't need to be told that someone else might be paying more. Just concentrate on telling us how we can pay less.

What's this 'club' that some people seem to have joined ? MSE is just a discussion forum - not a secret society.

John_Pierpoint

Just to clarify matters, my water also costs a standing charge of about £36 per year (up from £29 in 2008).
The consumption for two adults seems to gave gone up about 5 tonnes to 65 tonnes/annum over the same period, but that is probably a mixture of garden pride and more use of WC since retirements.
When building the smaller second chamber for the septic tank, I was able to use a polythene "Tonne Tank" (plus concrete reinforcing) It cost the massive sum of £10 for the tank and the pallet box; the latter became a "Wendy House". [The experience wasn't wasted DD went on to build her own home extension aged 21]
In a previous life the tank had delivered the brown dye to a cardboard factory.
Obviously with 20:20 hindsight, I wish I had installed rainwater harvesting, at the time, using a similar technique.

sly_dog_jonah

Just checked some facts and figures for our dishwasher & washing machine. Water costs are based on metered Bristol Water supply and Wessex Water sewage (one of the most expensive areas in the country for water costs).

Our usual washing machine cycle (Cottons Eco 40) uses 42 litres at a combined metered water/sewage cost of 15p. 1.02kWh is used per cycle.

Our usual dishwasher cycle (Eco) uses 16 litres at a combined metered water/sewage cost of 5p. 1.2kWh is used per cycle.

Each cycle's power consumption equated to about 10% of household daily import before our PV was installed (although not run every day of course).

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

What's this 'club' that some people seem to have joined ? MSE is just a discussion forum - not a secret society.

Sorry Eric, missing you out was a technical oversight, nothing personal.

This week we have special offers on 2 clubs:-

1. The sharing constructive advice club, or
2. The can't have it my way, so I'm gonna b1tch about it club.

Sadly, due to lack of interest, we've had to disband the Apathy club. We only had 2 applicants, and both were automatically declined for showing too much interest.

Mart. (aka Martyn, aka Martin, aka Marten, aka 'Warrior of Mars')

PS. What's life without a bit of humour and amusement?