As a single man, I really can't see the point in 'white collar' work now

mostlycheerful

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nah mate. Been tried before. Folks usually start thieving rather than meekly starve to death...

And rioting and fomenting revolution and doing coups and slaughtering everyone and burning it all down. The trick is to keep the lower orders fed just enough to stay alive but hungry enough to be motivated to go out to work every day doing slave labour so that the top 5% can continue to live in luxury and do what they want. The people being kept alive on benefits can sometimes become productive and remember that some people on benefits have previously been productive members of society and are only on benefits by accident and not design. However, I agree that something ought to be done about the scroungers and people choosing benefits as a lifestyle choice instead of work and who are therefore mostly useless and shamelessly ripping off workers and taxpayers. But what can be done? Perhaps if the state intervened and micromanaged their lives, as mapped out in the book 1984, then shirkers could be forced into work at the point of a sharp stick. Maybe.

Graham_Devon

PasturesNew wrote: »

And the time to access them. Doctors' surgery hours aren't easy for workers. It can be hard as you can't get a day off for a Doctor's appointment - and the Doctor systems make you jump through hoops. In the end, a lot of workers just only bother with Doctors if they think they're about to die.

To be fair, most jobs should give you compassionate time off for doctors / dentist / hospital appointments.

Doctors appointments are strange though. I have spent many hours trying to design systems to work for everyone. And being blunt, you can't. You've got government targets which you have to hit primarily, as part of the contract, so that rules. These targets don't generally work, as many patients have found out, but work for the government as they can say "patients can get an appointment the same day now".

Yes, they can, in general. However, it doesn't really help the patient if they can't follow up with a GP for a normal everyday illness that needs follow ups. Again, unfortunately, you can't do both AND hit the required contractual targets.

In most cases it's not surgeries trying to be difficult, it's mainly contractual targets which have to be offered, as on paper, they work.

Its a strange situation though. Most people will take any solicitors appointment they can get, and not moan. Infact, many are simply grateful...and will pay a hefty price for that appointment. They will simply fit round it.

Get it paid for out of taxes, and nothing is good enough. It's the same with councils and hospitals. Can simply never win when you are a public service. But professionals offering worse services and difficult appointment times and taking hundreds out of your pocket for the privilege....do we moan? No. We'll take what we get.

Funnily enough, those that moan the loudest, and have the most problems with the times avaliable, always seem to be those who don't actually have work to go to. I've lost count of the times people are going out that day, or having their hair done, so can't make an appointment, then get arsey as there isn't another one with the same GP until the following week.

A._Badger

Graham_Devon wrote: »

To be fair, most jobs should give you compassionate time off for doctors / dentist / hospital appointments.

<snipped>

That's not been my experience of either private medicine or the law.

On the contrary, I've found 'take it or leave it' and 'one size will fit all - or else' attitudes to be more or less the exclusive territory of the 'envy of the world' NHS.

YMMV, of course.

dizziblonde

I've had nightmares with doctors previously trying to get appointments - funnily our current surgery does manage to pull it off by having the opening hours adjusted to what they do (so they've got a mix of afternoons open and evenings closed and vice versa), plus some actually helpful receptionists who'll juggle things around to squish them in if they're an emergency and they leave same-day slots available in the schedule yet still let you book for routine followups... contrasted to my old surgery who seemed to actively seek to develop ways to inconvenience those who worked and make it impossible to see a doctor.

I'm sick of working, scraping around on minimal income yet not claiming benefits because I believe they're a safetynet - not a way of life, in order to subsidize people who just want to make a lifestyle out of watching TV all night, doing naff all and churning out kids everytime it looks like someone might tell them to get a job - and I'm speaking from experience of one particular relative, and not the Daily Mail stereotype on that front. I was a effing mug to stick in at school and go to uni.

misskool

Certainly depends on your surgery about appointments. Our surgery has 8am-1pm, then 4-5:30pm, and 6-8pm twice a week. A friend I know who lives in London has doctors surgery open from 7am and until 9pm some nights.

Some places aren't that flexible yet but it does depend on the population of the area.

PasturesNew

I just checked, mine are open 8.30am-6pm Mon-Fri only. They offer some bookable 6.30-7.30 slots, the building's locked and you use the intercom to gain entry.... but they don't tell you how many/which days on the website. (Update: Found it, each Dr does one slot per week, so you can only see 'your' Doctor if you can manage to book one of those elusive secret bookings, which only occur once a week).

The Doctors are only available 3-4 days/week each, having 3-4 days off. It appears 'my Doctor' only works Mon-Wed, with their 'secret appointments' being on Tuesdays.

When working I've usually left for work by 7.40am and not back home until 6.20pm on a good day.

Graham_Devon

PasturesNew wrote: »

I just checked, mine are open 8.30am-6pm Mon-Fri only. They offer some bookable 6.30-7.30 slots, the building's locked and you use the intercom to gain entry.... but they don't tell you how many/which days on the website. (Update: Found it, each Dr does one slot per week, so you can only see 'your' Doctor if you can manage to book one of those elusive secret bookings, which only occur once a week).

The Doctors are only available 3-4 days/week each, having 3-4 days off. It appears 'my Doctor' only works Mon-Wed, with their 'secret appointments' being on Tuesdays.

When working I've usually left for work by 7.40am and not back home until 6.20pm on a good day.

Ahh, the docs having days off.

Many people think that because one of the docs we have only works 2 full days a week, he spends the other 5 days a week merely doing nothing.

Infact, he has a massive involvement in medical students. Is part of the PCT & is on a Medical Board involcing him driving to London each week.

We had to go down the route of producing leaflets to show what else the GPs do in one of my places, as the patients were getting so vocally aggrivated that doctors had so much time off at their expense. Leaflets didn't work. Lambasted for wasting their money on pritning then.

PasturesNew

I hate leaflets. Nobody reads them, leaflets are like insult to injury. Why not just publish a timetable of when Doctors are available, showing a note of what they're doing on the other times. Job done.

I'd sack the people who produce, organise, distribute and f4nny about "being busy" producing leaflets. They'd be first to go in my new world.

tomterm8

The thing about doctors doesn#t bother me - I only go to the doctors if I think I am likely to die in the very near future. But for what its worth, you can't get appointments at my doctors, you just turn out in the freezing cold and rain, and after freezing your butt off for half an hour, in a queue of sick people, they may give you an appointment for some random time the same day or just send you home to do the same thing the next day. People with a job to go to simply can't go to the doctors. Can't take an entire day off without knowing if you will even get to see the doctor.

Graham_Devon

PasturesNew wrote: »

I hate leaflets. Nobody reads them, leaflets are like insult to injury. Why not just publish a timetable of when Doctors are available, showing a note of what they're doing on the other times. Job done.

Done that.

Wish it was that simple.

Try explaining to a patient that even though it says the doc will be in on a Tuesday, he's not here this Tuesday.

Suddenly you've got a formal complaint. No joke.

I'm serious. You just cannot please. In most cases, the more you do try to do to inform and help patients, the more and more you shoot yourself in the foot. It's actually far easier to produce nothing, and help no one. No expectations that way. Set up an expectation, and slightly go off the path you describe for whatever reason, and you are hung drawn and quartered.

Must say though, it's only about 10% of people who will find problems in everything. But those 10% are extremely vocal. It's a constant battle no mater what you do. Seems unique to public services. At least, from what I have seen, as people expect so much from something they pay taxes for.

As you said, leaflets are insult to injury. However, should we get stick for a doc having other duties, and everything slagging them off for having an easy week, when infact, they work around 60 hours of it? All you can do, is try and put the right information out. But people generally are not interested in that...doesnt solve their issue that they can't see their GP when they want to.

An example is bin collections. Those people, they simply cannot do right. There is no way for them to do right, and they will never actually do right. Ever.