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Change to shift rota for new year. Where do i stand?
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DVardysShadow wrote: »I understand your point. But it is not good enough to drop a change on a shift worker without long notice and some means of coping with prior plans.Mon to Fri people can plan ahead knowing full well that they will never lose leave for planning something on a Sat or Sun. Shift workers deserve equal respect.
Depends what you mean by long notice! You certainly couldn't expect several months ahead where you may have something arranged. The person I know works a four week notice and that is the minimum notice they are given for a change.Lost my soulmate so life is empty.
I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
Diana Gabaldon, Outlander0 -
Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »Thanks for the explanation - it sounds as if you are really trying to help me in understanding the situation :rotfl:
However.
None of it matters.
The OP has had their shifts changed.
The employer has changed the shift pattern.
The leave that the employee is entitled to is just that - leave that they are entitled to.
Just because the OP works a shift pattern does not mean that they are entitled to 20-odd extra days because the dates that they had planned on taking now clash with their working days.
Now, if you have any legal pointers that say this is not the case, then great. However, intimating that the OP can claim back 60% of their leave because the dates clash [and possibly encouraging them to put a grievance in] is not helpful if there is no rights associated with this. Just because DVS thinks it's good that that's the way employers should work because it respects the employee does not make it so!
Now although there may not be a legal right [and I never said there was] does not mean that it is OK to trample over the OP's plans. This is about respect for the OP - just because there is no law which says that there should be respect, does not mean that it is OK to treat someone without respect. And just because there is no law against disrespect does not render it inappropriate to raise a gievance.
Just to give an outrageous example, suppose that the boss demands sex with the employee's wife. There is no law against adultery. On your argument, there are no grounds for raising a grievance. Hmm.
Get off my back, or I'll ask wot's his name to book a room.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
DVardysShadow wrote: »
Get off my back, or I'll ask wot's his name to book a room.
I posted 'Isn't this what leave is for - stag dos, weddings, non-urgent hospital appointments?' and you got right onto me about it - so perhaps you should get off mine?
By continually arguing that the company are in the wrong you ARE intimating that the OP has a case; we can all argue what should happen, but it has happened and that's that. That's the nature of shift work.
If anything, the only way the OP is going to get some movement on this is by arguing that by giving the other person the time off, that they are being discriminated against in some way by not having the same treatment. However, I can't see it sticking in all honesty.If you haven't got it - please don't flaunt it. TIA.0 -
Obviously the 9-5ers are struggling with this. As the shifts are the same, all you can do is appeal to the bosses good will and explain the situation. I had to do a similar swap and although it meant I had to use holidays for events that I should have been off for, I also gained some days as some events were now on my rest days. I managed to wangle Christmas off, for free as they were desperate to change and grateful for my acceptance of the change.
Edit to add, 24/7 shift patterns onlly acrue 19 hols per year, inc public hols, so holidays have to be planned very well.0 -
Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »I posted 'Isn't this what leave is for - stag dos, weddings, non-urgent hospital appointments?' and you got right onto me about it - so perhaps you should get off mine?
By continually arguing that the company are in the wrong you ARE intimating that the OP has a case; we can all argue what should happen, but it has happened and that's that. That's the nature of shift work.
If anything, the only way the OP is going to get some movement on this is by arguing that by giving the other person the time off, that they are being discriminated against in some way by not having the same treatment. However, I can't see it sticking in all honesty.
You are confusing discrimination with inconvenienced and disadvantaged. OP may well not have been discriminated against. But plainly he is being disadvantaged and inconvenienced. That is enough for a grievance in my book.
As I see it, OP is as entitled to be able to plan for the rest days he has as any mon to fri 9-5 er.pompeyrich wrote: »Obviously the 9-5ers are struggling with this.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
DVardysShadow wrote: »As I see it, OP is as entitled to be able to plan for the rest days he has as any mon to fri 9-5 er.
Again, for the OP to go into a grievance saying 'a man on the internet said' isn't going to hold much truck. Have you any links to assist the OP?If you haven't got it - please don't flaunt it. TIA.0 -
Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »Again, for the OP to go into a grievance saying 'a man on the internet said' isn't going to hold much truck. Have you any links to assist the OP?
Oh. lay off. If it is Law,you are after, then there will be loads of links. But as I said, this is about basic respect.
You don't need a law to be able to raise a grievance. Grievance procedures are there in part to deal with matters of unfairness and injustice and grievance and provocation and bullying and unreasonable imposition which are not dealt with by the law. It is a matter of judgement. Plainly, you don't share the judgement that this is a matter to raise a grievance about. That does not make you wrong, but you not being wrong does not make me wrong either.
Don't persist in asking for links, it is a fairly pointless sort of request. If you go to the Marriage Relationships and Families Board, there are loads of issues which come up which are a matter of individual judgement rather than law or received and recorded wisdom. This matter in the employment arena is another such issue.
Just put up with my opinion. Everything is permitted to be raised as a grievance unless it it prohibited. And you are well wrong if you are suggesting that all grievances are prohibited unless there is a link which says they are permitted.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »Again, for the OP to go into a grievance saying 'a man on the internet said' isn't going to hold much truck. Have you any links to assist the OP?
There may not be any links as such but others knowledge and experience may help provide a reasonable negotiating point. If I want to go to an event on a Saturday, there's a 50-50 chance I will be working, if I am I can either use 2 days holiday to attend, 1 for Friday night and 1 for the Saturday night, or miss the event. As I said continental shifts only accrue 19 days holiday, so 10% of my holiday for the year would have to be used, just to get part of a weekend off. Maybe the HR dept. haven't thought of this so mentioning it might trigger a positive reaction to the upheavel they are creating for the OP.0 -
the reality is the OP has been inconvenienced...however....if it were my family weddings, etc, then regardless what day they were on, I would be there...(and last wedding was on a Monday, i.e. a normal work day for me!).It seems to me the Op got lucky in the first place with all these key dates falling on days off.....
I would not be inclined to go down the grievance route, as it is not likely to get anywhere, the needs of the business will always dictate shift patterns even for those traditionally Mon-Fri - although shift swapping for the key dates might be doable0 -
okay, there's a few things here -
- what, if anything, does the contract of employment say about the shift pattern? Does it say that you will always work 4-on 4-off and that your sequence in the rota shall never change? (doubt it)
- so, you could use the argument "custom and practice" - in that you've done this shift pattern for so long (although it isn't actually THAT long and I think the phrase "needs of the business" will overrule)
- you could argue that the employer has already set a precedent by allowing your colleague extra time off for previously arranged engagements
For example, we have a couple of staff who work Mon/Wed/Fri one week then Tue/Thu/Sat. It suits them and they plan their lives around this pattern. However, "needs of the business" mean that if I need them to change their pattern then so be it - their contract actually says they work 3 days out of 7.
If your supervisor is a turd then I'd request a meeting with the line manager or with HR to discuss. You could try and argue that you haven't had sufficient notice of the change of shift pattern and that through "custom and practice" you assumed it would continue as it was. Check your contract of employment however, as you might find that you only get 4 weeks (or whatever) notice of a change to shift pattern.
But ultimately, I think this is more a case of your employer being compassionate than anything, so go in softly softly and don't aggrevate the situation by raising a grievance at this point.0
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