Condensing boilers "multi-billion-pound con-trick"

Pennylane

aboard_epsilon wrote: »

very good advice from a very good plumber ..heed it .

all the best.markj

We did;) We're really lucky to have such a good guy living locally. We always support small local businesses and really trust them.

Radsteral

our new vailant has coped well this year..though as with previous posts, i m keen on old things . i only replaced it due to the old one giving up after 15 years.

I was born in south east of europe and i remember 7 years ago my brother asked me to buy him a toyota hilux pick up and send it there .... the list of undesired things on the pick up were suprisingly endless.... dont buy one with electric mirrors..not with electric mirrors.. it mustnt have a turbo.. it mustnt have springs for the suspention but leafs... no air con . possibly manual 4x4 activation and not the ones activated from the dashboard.....
after quite a bit search i found the toyota of his dreams ..a 1996 reg and no matter what happens he can fix it himself easily
running around with it today and it runs perfectly in this cold... thank god it does have power steering ;O)

wallbash

Definitely going off topic here but agree with your brother, when shopping for the latest washing machine , it was more what I did NOT want rather than all the extra progs and features they wanted to supply.

KISS

A.Penny.Saved

alanobrien wrote: »

It can and will happen and boiler make in respect to the issue of condentate pipes freezing is irrelavent.

I have a vaillant ecomax system boiler myself, exactly like that shown and my condensate pipe froze during the recent cold spell. It reached -7c here. However for me its a simple issue to resolve. i just bypassed it for a couple of days while it thawed out.

I also recognise its an installation issue rather than a technology problem so when the weather improves i will simply re route the pipe and/or lag it to avoid the issue next year.

I still believe however that long term these boilers are no more cost effective than the old non condensing types. In fact imho over a 10 year period i suspect they are probably more costly for Mr & Mrs average who have to get someone in to fix them every time a simple problem arises.

They are simply not very fault tolorant.

If yours froze at -7C then the fitting could be suspect or your in a very exposed location. It went to -13C and was around that temperature for quite a few days here and yet I didn't have a problem with mine just like I didn't at my last home. I have had my heating on low for most of that time to help prevent water pipes from freezing.

It's something I will investigate though as I don't like taking chances, especially when it could cost me money. I will pay more attention to it and have a look to see how things are when the next cold spell hits next week.

screwedagain

Canucklehead wrote: »

Hi,

1) Interesting how the article has a photo of a Vaillant rather than the Worcester. Worcester have the best public image but seem to have the most complaints about freezing condense wastes. The Daily Mail is well informed as usual.

2) It seems to me that most people are blaming the technology rather than the apparent poor installation. If you care to look at the installation instructions for your boiler you may find it shows a tun dish arrangement for the condense waste under the boiler so it doesn't back up into it. It might run all over the floor but is that better or worse than screwing up hundreds of pounds worth of components within the boiler?

3)How do they cope in Europe and North America? Perhaps someone with personal experience can share?

4) Should we dispense with progress?

5) Do you think the term 'Whinging Pom' came out of nowhere?

6) The UK public demand an ever cheaper product. Is there a connection there?

7)Perhaps the cold weather will sharpen the attention of those who will have a new boiler fitted in the future.


GSR.

The first sensible post in the entire thread.

Here we basically have an entire thread slating condensing boilers, many contributors to which have no technical knowledge of the subject other than the sensationalist rubbish printed in the Daily Mail, alongside for example their ridiculous campaign to retain tungsten filament lamps or 'light bulbs'.

"British Gas is understood to have had 60,000 call-outs in Yorkshire alone. And the cost to call out a plumber? It can be between £200 to £300 on a bank holiday. And don’t forget about VAT."

And just how many of these callouts could have been prevented by users (i.e. the home owners) taking a bit of responsibility for a change and looking at the instruction booklet for the boiler, and understanding that it has to occasionally dispense liquid waste through a fairly obvious plastic pipe sticking out of the bottom and going outside to a drain, the same way as a dishwasher or washing machine? It's not rocket science. Or if they can't be bothered doing that then at least show a bit of interest with what the installer is doing whenever the boiler is installed in the first place.

The simple fact remains that in order for the UK to meet its target reduction in carbon emissions, condensing boilers are here to stay. There is no hidden agenda, or great big cover up or whatever else, condensing boilers represent technical progress, like everything from mobile phones to LCD TV's to electric wing mirrors on cars!! Should we stop using inflatable rubber tyres because they sometimes get punctured?

I apologise for the rant but I vehemently object to what amounts to an entire profession of engineering being vilified in the press by ill informed journalists and little-Englanders who prefer "old boilers" to "new ones."

aboard_epsilon

screwedagain..that you will be .!!!


Bet you are the sort of person that can afford a new car every two years ..

To me this isn't about the condensate pipe becoming blocked ..its about ..
1 buying a new one every few years ..when you didn't in the past .
2. They are too expensive to fix
3.they ain't washing machines ..but are designed with the same lifespan ..
4. a washing machine can be swapped over in half an hour .
5 . people don't have the spare cash to be able to afford crap.

all the best.markj

C_Mababejive

Indeed...the forced draught burner/recuperative technology used on board the current fleet of high efficiency condensing boilers is great stuff and ensures the best use of precious and expensive gas but what i would say is that burner and recuperative technology should be harnessed in system boilers,linked to a high efficiency hot water storage cylinder. In addition, spend on insulation and better controls is worthwhile. The idea of "instant" hot water from a combi is just wasteful/fallacious and places un-necessary strain on water and gas networks.

wallbash

The simple fact remains that in order for the UK to meet its target reduction in carbon emissions, condensing boilers are here to stay

Easy answer , SOD! the targets,

WestonDave

Just to buck the trend I can report that our 3 year old Worcester condensing combi hasn't had a single problem with the condensate drain freezing - but that might be something to do with have a savvy installer who piped it into the back of the soil pipe in the toilet (the boiler is situated in the downstairs cloakroom).

I agree that it probably won't justify its instalation cost on efficiency alone, however our old system was literally falling apart (pipes pulling apart during electrical work!) and its removal means that we can get rid of a monstrous flue that runs from the garage right up the back of the house and through the house roof! It has saved us 66% of our gas consumption in the summer due to not having to heat a tank of water each day just for a bit of hand washing, and presumably saves us some gas costs in the winter. Our old boiler was the sort that plumbers said would go on for ever, don't replace it etc, but in reality it ate thermocouples which meant that every so often it simply stopped working, and whilst it was an easy fix, it wasn't a DIY fix so I paid £70+ a time for a ten minute job.

I'm sure they need to be installed after proper consideration rather than just relying on sales patter, but that's no different to not beleiving that the double glazing you are being offered has some magic moon dust coating that makes it 1000% more energy efficient than normal glass! If you go around blindly believing sales patter you are going to get ripped off and have poor instalations!

screwedagain

aboard_epsilon wrote: »

screwedagain..that you will be .!!!


Bet you are the sort of person that can afford a new car every two years ..

To me this isn't about the condensate pipe becoming blocked ..its about ..
1 buying a new one every few years ..when you didn't in the past .
2. They are too expensive to fix
3.they ain't washing machines ..but are designed with the same lifespan ..
4. a washing machine can be swapped over in half an hour .
5 . people don't have the spare cash to be able to afford crap.

all the best.markj

Funny you mention that - I recently traded in my previous car that I had been using for 7 years for an updated model. Who needs to buy a new car every two years if you look after the one you have?

Anyways, we digress. My problem is with the link/article in the opening post, with the general public being sold a load of tosh in a newspaper about all condensing boilers being rubbish because a poorly installed condensate pipe might freeze in cold weather. It is complete nonsense.

As for your post above, the issue with newer boilers (and other household goods) being made cheaply which somene else pointed out earlier is driven by a public chasing an ever cheaper product. I whole heartedly support a free economy where consumers have the ability to obtain value for money for products and services, but with regards to items being expensive to fix and people not having "the spare cash to afford crap" as you so eloquently put it, people wouldn't have to repeatedly spend money on items if they didn't always go for the cheapest option!

Maybe we as consumers should be asking if what we pay for items such as new boilers is a fair price to pay if we expect said items to last upwards of 20 years.