Condensing boilers "multi-billion-pound con-trick"

1984ReturnsForReal_2

andrew-b wrote: »

so combi or not is irrelevant to this.

No it not irrelevant if they are the boilers that have the majority of problems when it gets cold which is when exactly a boiler should work.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

silvercar wrote: »

Is this always true? Or can the cold water taps throughout the house be run from a tank. Particularly if a combi has replaced a conventional boiler.

If the mains freezes you do not have a store of water as a back up with a conventional combi system.

leveller2911

aboard_epsilon wrote: »

When you add up what a plumber charges these days to fix the thing ..the old one may be more cost effective to keep.

Old ones ...up to 30 years lifespan ..with very little going wrong .

New ones .sometimes less than five years lifespan ..also in that five years may break down a few times .........projected....in the 30 years the old style one would have lasted ..you may have to replace the new fangled condensing boiler 4 times at plus £2000 a time ..

So over the next 30 years the new ones could cost you in excess of £10,000..im maintenance and replacement costs...PLUS YOUR GAS BILL ON TOP...and i reckon thats a low estimate .

OK ....compairing them with washing machines as someone did a few posts back...but the difference is.........a washing machine is able to be replaced by the the consumer at no cost to fit in most cases.

These things should not be acceptable ...i hate the thought of all the old people out there spending all their retirement money on just keeping the heating up to scratch ..all getting coned by timothy spall in the nice cosy British gas adverts...and Wallace and grommet ..proclaiming how much better they are ...stinks.

I proclaim this year to be "the year of the gas safe plumber"..rich pickings for all ..Die Glückliche Zeit as the u-boat captains would say ..but this will go on ...there isn't any British navy that will stop them.

all the best.markj

Lots and lots of generalisation ............. not just you its just about all of us on this thread.:D not forgetting its based on a Daily Mail story can we really believe it?... TBH if they stopped exageration stories so much people may begin to believe them sometimes.

aboard_epsilon

leveller2911 wrote: »

Lots and lots of generalisation ............. not just you its just about all of us on this thread.:D not forgetting its based on a Daily Mail story can we really believe it?... TBH if they stopped exageration stories so much people may begin to believe them sometimes.

Your baxi may be 60 percent efficient ..i have feeling its even more efficient than that ..dont forget the heat goes slowly up the chimney ..heating the chimney ..and so the house as well ..so your 60 percent may well be over 60 percent...how much so i don't know ..

i think some of the last older conventional "non condensing" ones were as much as 75 percent efficient..so the owners of those models will only be gaining around 10 - 15 percent if the swapped over..that is a good enough reason to keep them, when you add up the long term costs .

BTW ..i don't like the daily mail ..but think the article is mostly right

all the best.markj

leveller2911

aboard_epsilon wrote: »

Your baxi may be 60 percent efficient ..i have feeling its even more efficient than that ..dont forget the heat goes slowly up the chimney ..heating the chimney ..and so the house as well ..so your 60 percent may well be over 60 percent...how much so i don't know ..

i think some of the last older conventional "non condensing" ones were as much as 75 percent efficient..so the owners of those models will only be gaining around 10 - 15 percent if the swapped over..that is a good enough reason to keep them, when you add up the long term costs .

BTW ..i don't like the daily mail ..but think the article is mostly right

all the best.markj

Just checked its 65% , Theres very little radiant heat from the chimey breast AFAIK
Many A rated boilers are between 89-95% efficient.. Personally speaking I will change mine for 2 reasons ,firstly its costing me a packet in gas compared to my neighbours and 2nd I want a wood burner (as Im a Joiner and have plenty of offcuts)


ANYONE HAVE A BRIQUETTE MAKING MACHINE TO COMPRESS WOOD SHAVINGS THEY WANT TO SELL pm ME.:D
http://www.scrap-your-boiler.co.uk/do-i-qualify.php?manufacturer=2&model=2&boilertype=1&modelqualifier=

aboard_epsilon

leveller2911 wrote: »

Just checked its 65% , Theres very little radiant heat from the chimey breast AFAIK
Many A rated boilers are between 89-95% efficient.. Personally speaking I will change mine for 2 reasons ,firstly its costing me a packet in gas compared to my neighbours and 2nd I want a wood burner (as Im a Joiner and have plenty of offcuts)


ANYONE HAVE A BRIQUETTE MAKING MACHINE TO COMPRESS WOOD SHAVINGS THEY WANT TO SELL pm ME.:D
http://www.scrap-your-boiler.co.uk/do-i-qualify.php?manufacturer=2&model=2&boilertype=1&modelqualifier=

yup, wood burner would be the wise-est decision you ever made ..what with you being a joiner ........some of them are over 75 percent efficient ..and it will all be mostly free to you .

make your choice of wood burner a wise one as well .read up on them ..there is plenty of info on the net ..dont buy Chinese is all i can tell you .

all the best.markj

Canucklehead

Hi,

1) Interesting how the article has a photo of a Vaillant rather than the Worcester. Worcester have the best public image but seem to have the most complaints about freezing condense wastes. The Daily Mail is well informed as usual.

2) It seems to me that most people are blaming the technology rather than the apparent poor installation. If you care to look at the installation instructions for your boiler you may find it shows a tun dish arrangement for the condense waste under the boiler so it doesn't back up into it. It might run all over the floor but is that better or worse than screwing up hundreds of pounds worth of components within the boiler?

3)How do they cope in Europe and North America? Perhaps someone with personal experience can share?

4) Should we dispense with progress?

5) Do you think the term 'Whinging Pom' came out of nowhere?

6) The UK public demand an ever cheaper product. Is there a connection there?

7)Perhaps the cold weather will sharpen the attention of those who will have a new boiler fitted in the future.


GSR.

Wistful_2

I am very very glad I saw this thread as I have a very old boiler which every time he comes the british gas man says there are no spare parts for and a new one is more efficient blah blah blah. Then last week I had a small gas leak at the meter outside the house and a contractor was sent to fix it and the regulator(?) needed replacing.

Anyway, this bloke restarted my boiler and I said BG keep saying I should replace it and he said 'you dont want to listen to them they are all on commission'. And he said to get back the cost of a new boiler in gas bill savings would take so long it would never be worth it. And now so many people here are saying new boilers dont last anything like as long. And they freeze....

I just hope the old boiler keeps on going.

A.Penny.Saved

Canucklehead wrote: »

Hi,

1) Interesting how the article has a photo of a Vaillant rather than the Worcester. Worcester have the best public image but seem to have the most complaints about freezing condense wastes. The Daily Mail is well informed as usual.

I have a Valiant Condensing boiler which looks exactly like that one in the picture in that article which was fitted 3 years ago and mine didn't freeze and the condensate pipe runs out the front of my home and down a pipe to the porch roof guttering.
I had a similar Valiant at my last property and never had that freeze either.

I'm not saying it can't happen but so far it has not and it got very cold here, condensation freezing on the inside of my double glazing.

2) It seems to me that most people are blaming the technology rather than the apparent poor installation. If you care to look at the installation instructions for your boiler you may find it shows a tun dish arrangement for the condense waste under the boiler so it doesn't back up into it. It might run all over the floor but is that better or worse than screwing up hundreds of pounds worth of components within the boiler?

3)How do they cope in Europe and North America? Perhaps someone with personal experience can share?

4) Should we dispense with progress?

5) Do you think the term 'Whinging Pom' came out of nowhere?

6) The UK public demand an ever cheaper product. Is there a connection there?

7)Perhaps the cold weather will sharpen the attention of those who will have a new boiler fitted in the future.


GSR.

alanobrien

A.Penny.Saved wrote: »

I have a Valiant Condensing boiler which looks exactly like that one in the picture in that article which was fitted 3 years ago and mine didn't freeze and the condensate pipe runs out the front of my home and down a pipe to the porch roof guttering.
I had a similar Valiant at my last property and never had that freeze either.

I'm not saying it can't happen but so far it has not and it got very cold here, condensation freezing on the inside of my double glazing.

It can and will happen and boiler make in respect to the issue of condentate pipes freezing is irrelavent.

I have a vaillant ecomax system boiler myself, exactly like that shown and my condensate pipe froze during the recent cold spell. It reached -7c here. However for me its a simple issue to resolve. i just bypassed it for a couple of days while it thawed out.

I also recognise its an installation issue rather than a technology problem so when the weather improves i will simply re route the pipe and/or lag it to avoid the issue next year.

I still believe however that long term these boilers are no more cost effective than the old non condensing types. In fact imho over a 10 year period i suspect they are probably more costly for Mr & Mrs average who have to get someone in to fix them every time a simple problem arises.

They are simply not very fault tolorant.