Boxing day tube strikes

dacouch

Hammyman wrote: »

They'd be stuffed if they had to use the HGV ISOTRAK system.

They would probably make a freudian slip and think it's an anagram for o STRIKA

robt_2

Some people are coming across as very bitter now.

And no, I'm not a tube driver.

Rossy.

robt wrote: »

Some people are coming across as very bitter now.

And no, I'm not a tube driver.

no bitterness at all from what i can see

People are just pointing out the basics

bigjl

alastairq wrote: »

sense? Really? I seem to be reading an awful lot of 'nonsense' on this thread, so why should someone as humble as I change what seems to be an acceptable trend?

But really.....5 years??? for a pilot? Check out next time you fly, exactly how many years of training and skill it takes to get a modern passenger aircraft off the ground, to its destination [or..near enough],and landed again?

Most, if not all, is done by technology..the object being, to reduce the amount of human input to as near as acceptable, zero.

As for degrees?

Well, having a degree these days is like having an O level when I was young....simply defines a'level' of education, and has absolutely zero input as far as professional knowledge and skill is concerned.....[it's called, 'ticking the boxes'.....as a working nation we're in love with box-ticking!]

that comes later.

50 years or more ago, engine drivers in France had to undergo as stringent a training regime as what you imagine airline pilots go through.

In contrast, in this country, a budding engine driver simply spent several years 'shadowing' an experienced driver, learning 'on the job' as it were.

Unlike their French counterparts, a British engine driver was not required to have an in-depth knowledge of the machine in their care...


Many years ago, I underwent a Navigating Apprenticeship, subsequently being made up to Third Officer, [having, eventually, a 2nd Mate's Certificate of Competency]in our Merchant Navy.

At the age of [19!] I was literally 'in charge'..ie driving, a supertanker!


that was 5 years worth of hard struggle.

THAT was professional training!

Nowadays, the training time is a lot less, but degrees are involved.....not too sure what sort of quality has been achieved?


Incidentally...a colleague pointed out a fact to me the other week.....in that, within the Civil Service, our job is probably the only one which requires, by law, certain qualifications.

Not too many jobs or professions out there actually have a legal requirement for certain qualifications....most are just 'governed' by 'professional' bodies.






yup..this is a, if not THE, typical comment from someone who is obviously, on top of his profession...usually by dint of experience.

Do not be confused by it.....it is the mark of a supremely confidant and competent person...at the job concerned.

I hear it all the time where I work........about how our job is a 'walk in the park'..a doddle.....much rather do this than go back to what went before, etc......even though the pay is modest in the extreme.

[The fact that, on average [when we were allowed to recruit]....of every 20 applicants, only 3 to 5 actually made the grade and were offered jobs! Difficult when we are, and always have been , grossly under-staffed!]


so, I say this...don't denigrate the skills needed for another's job......until you've tried it yourselves

My mate is a Pilot, in Aberdeen, he as a First Officer and has only cracked the 30k barrier this year, he has almost 2000 flying hours, and it did in fact take him 3 years to complete his training at CabAir and £45k of his own money, he has to pay for a type rating on every plane he wants to fly, not forgetting other courses he has to complete every year, including extra training as he flies Perf A aircraft. Your last comment made me laugh, don't denigrate another person job until you have tried it yourself, lol, how many planes have you landed? And you are aware that before you can fly you have to be able to do every automated function on the plane yourself, as when the technology misfunctions you can't just stop at the next station or in the tunnel. Anything that is automated on a plane can be done by the pilots, but then you think Cabin Attendants just make tea and coffee, don't you.

To compare a LU Tube Driver to a professional Pilot really does show you up for the imbecile that you really are, the Tube Drivers are going the way of the LFB, making a big fuss, bigging themselves up and in doing so show the public what an easy life you really do have. You have the easiest job in the LU and I think you should be paid on the same payscales as NewYork tube drivers, in other owrds not very much.

The reason why they don't want too many tube drivers is more protectionist than any real lack of suitable candidates.

You use strike action to bully LU anf TFL into giving in to your demands and have been shown up by not reading the last contract that you signed, your Union dropped a clanger there but as all you where interested was more money every month you signed on the dotted line, and now that you are not getting exactly what you want you have thrown your toys from the pram and have gone on strike again.

Well I hope it makes you happy, as all it will do is get all the IT bods and engineers on less money than you all fired up in an attempt to automate the tubes in London, then in 20 years you will look back and think, I we hadn't been so stupid we could have had that cushy number until retirement.

If I had a job as overpaid and cushy as the tube drivers I would keep my head well down, after all once the general public knows and public support is lostthen gravy trains have a tendancy to dry up.

I reckon London Bus drivers has a more stressful and difficult job, and are greatly underpaid, but since deregulation and privitisation if they srike they are out the door, Tube Drivers take careful note.

I watched a programme about tube drivers getting trained a number of years ago, and don't remember many Mensa candidates being present.

Seems to me that Black Cab drivers and Tube Drivers have a lot in common, an elevated sense of their own professional worth, you think Paramedics just drive the Ambulance don't you, adfter all we aren't bening trained for CardioVersion in London and don't perform and are trained for all kinds of invasive procedures, no we just drive with the neenaws on, yup that is it, we are just drivers, not highly trained medical professionals, and we never had our job independantly assessed for A4C as being higher that an newly trained JuniorSHO, but politics made them push it just under, and even though we could have striked we had a less selfish outlook, maybe we could have cost a few lives and gone on strike on New Years Eve, but sometimes you have to consider your own needs after the greater needs of society.

Something that the LU Tube Drivers and LFB have forgotten, the greater good, the LFB would have striked, if it wasn't for fear of losing any more public sympathy, they actually seen the light, a bit late, but I have a bit more respect for them, though their job is an easy number usually, but even though the Police and Ambos wind the LFB up about sleeping at night and not turning a wheel all shift, we still have respect for what they might have to do.

Now lets get back to tube drivers, they push a lever back and forth, and even thogh I have sympathy for any tube driver that has a jumper, I have never seen a Tube Driver climb under a tube train!!!!!!! But have seen tube drivers afterwards and always tell them that they couldn't have stopped and it is not their fault, see I even treat them properly, unlike the travelling public, the tube drivers treat them like pawns in a game of chess, just something to be used and sacrificed without a second thought, after all they are only pawns.




Now I know why you are so bitter, you used to have a proper job, now you jst pull a lever, yeah it would annoy me also.

Though I should point out that I have loads of family and friends that have been in the merchant navy etc, and they don't consider it that hard, and they most definately don't deem themselves better trained than an airline pilot, after all a large ship needs to have aPilot on board when in certain ports, and needs tugs to manuvere as they can't do it themselves.




Funnily enough nobody at my work considers their job a walk in the park, though a number of ex LU staff at my work consider the Tube Drivers job to be a walk in the park, one used to be a Tube Driver, he knows the job is easier and better paid, but he wants to do a job he can be proud of doing, not just a huge pay packet. There are blokes at my work that where Traders at the Liffe exchange, ex Engineers, ex LFB, ex Met Police, ex senior IT bods in the City among others. They do their current job for more altruistic reasons, to give back, to have more self worth, not just to bully and force ever more unreasonable wage demands.


Look at the Miners, I believe the LU Drivers could be heading the same way, but next time read your entire contract before you sign it, and if you get stiched up again with a dodgy clause then take it out on your Union, not the travelling public and the economy of the UK.



Erm, so after 5 years of training, aged 19, you where driving the supertanker? So you where you born on the boat, as I make it you started training at 14????????????????????

You also can't practice as a Paramedic without being State Registered, which means that you have to register with th HPC, and that is by law, as the term Paramedic is protected and unauuthorised use is illegal, so you aren't the only Civil Service job that need qualifications by law, actually a lot of jobs need you to pass certain qualifications by law, such as being Airside at an airport.


I think it is obvious now that Tube Drivers are overpaid, have been for years, though I didn't see anybody argue that the driver of the Cannon Street Tube was out of his head on spliff when he crashed, mmm, funny that, but then I know the crew that turned up first, so it can't really be argued.

Livingthedream

bigjl wrote: »

Look at the Miners, I believe the LU Drivers could be heading the same way

A very valid point, but IMHO I don't think the Liberal side to the Coalition Government would stomach it and you'll find that most unions know this and perhaps use it to their advantage.

dacouch

Losing (More of) the public sympathy would play into the hands of this happening http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthegap/2010/06/do_we_even_need_drivers_on_the.html as eventually enough will be enough.

P.S Bigjl respect to you Ambulance drivers and paramedics especially in London with all the traffic, you do a great job keep it up

Hammyman

Livingthedream wrote: »

A very valid point, but IMHO I don't think the Liberal side to the Coalition Government would stomach it and you'll find that most unions know this and perhaps use it to their advantage.

The Lib Dems have no power in this government or has the student fees fiasco taught you nothing? Every single thing in the Lib Dem manifesto has been trampled on. They have been given positions in the cabinet as lip service and not allowed to do anything the Conservatives don't approve of as Vince Cable has found out. The important posts (PM/Chancellor) have gone to the Conservatives.

Livingthedream

Hammyman wrote: »

The Lib Dems have no power in this government or has the student fees fiasco taught you nothing? Every single thing in the Lib Dem manifesto has been trampled on. They have been given positions in the cabinet as lip service and not allowed to do anything the Conservatives don't approve of as Vince Cable has found out. The important posts (PM/Chancellor) have gone to the Conservatives.

Yes, I do agree with you in principle, especially now that the Lib Dem's have tasted power, however, unions are a different entity compared to students. A coalition Government would have a very difficult time going head to head with RMT or ASLEF or both, who could easily cripple all National Rail network. A risk to far I think unless provoked.

Would this happen in the future, what with modernisation/automation of the London Underground this could lead to job losses that the unions won't accept, it just may?

ebayqueen_2

Hi there

I am all for the working man trying to earn a living. In this case though I find it disgraceful to strike for this pay request. I arrived at Heathrow on boxing day unaware of the strike but eventually got to our hotel. Spent the next 3 days walking past a the nearest station as it was closed ...1st strike...2nd and 3rd maintenance. We coped ok as we enjoy walking around London and used the buses sometimes. Its just that boxing day is a day that so many people travel to see family and of course the mass rush into central london to the sales.

We spoke to a number of Taxi drivers (very helpful people) and they were disgusted with the attitude of the drivers. They have to work over Christmas and for a,lot less too! In the current economic climate, is it not a bit insulting to others who are really struggling to keep their jobs to ask for this kind of pay rise.

adamc260

Do doctors strike because they can't take their holidays on certain days or have to work bank holidays... no? =/