Hills, snow and ice

mikey72

Ice road truckers used "jake brakes" that increase engine breaking, so I agree with engine breaking in gear, not the foot brakes.
Yes, ABS switches off at 5mph (give or take) as if it stays on all the car the car would actually never be able to stop.

bigjl

I take it you remember the switch in the Audis aswell mikey?

tomstickland

bigjl wrote: »

Though Tom is correct in that with very deft brake usage you can control your descent speed, but if the car hit a small bump then your foot would be bumped aswell and this would result in the wheels locking and loss of control, once control is lost in such conditions then it is almost impossible to regain it due to the lack of grip.

This fact alone would make using the engine to provide speed control both safer and more progressive.

It would be nigh on impossible to control a car on a 2 or 3 mile descent using the brakes for example, whereas just leaving the car in gear means you can concentrate on forward vision and planning your descent.

I've done it down a 2 mile hill near me. It's very tiring on the legs and requires a lot of concentration, I agree. As soon as the car started sliding then I would let go of the brakes and reapply.

What is really being suggested here is that leaving the vehicle in, say, 1st or 2nd is an easy way of limiting the amount of braking that is being done.

I'm quite happy to acknowledge that engine braking is:
-easier to do
-works well in a lot of situations
-is fine as long as the speeds are low to begin with
-the driver is hovering over the clutch ready to push it down if there's a loss of grip on a corner

Basic physics shows that the maximum braking force is going to be generated with all four wheels doing some work as opposed to two of them.

almillar

A lot of generalisation and repeating of pub trivia in here, not all cars or drivers are the same.
ABS is the car automatically releasing and re-applying the brakes when they lock up. I've driven cars with AWFUL ABS and with good ABS. ABS is automating pumping the brake pedal you may have been taught for the emergency stop. Instead of actually trying to control a skid, just go on-off-on the brake, and you'll spend a lot of time slowing down quite well. ANY ABS is better than a driver just holding down the brake pedal in ice. Yes, those drivers do exist....
ESP, electronic stability control, ASP, other acronyoms, in general sense the roll speed of all 4 wheels, and if 1 wheel goes far slower than others, it may be able to brake or release, individual wheels, or pull back engine power, to get all 4 wheels rolling again, and therefore not locked up.
Traction control works on the driven wheels (please don't drive until you find out whether your car is FWD, RWD or 4WD), and, when accelerating, can cut engine power if a wheel spins up, allowing it to regain traction and acceleration to continue. TC often gets confused, or overactive, in snow or ice, and it may be better to switch it off and allow a bit of slippage.
Don't drive your car again until you familiarise yourself with the above systems!
And on engine braking - yes, except in the most extreme circumstances, it can be used to HOLD your car back and stop it racing away. This can be safer than a non confident driver having to keep tapping the brakes and risk skidding each time.

cyclonebri1

almillar wrote: »

A lot of generalisation and repeating of pub trivia in here.

However you may think the fact remains that a good driver without abs will stop quicker than a poor one with abs will do, which is the escence of the debate???


ABS was designed to enable "average" drivers, and I'm being generous, to stop "adequately"

mikey72

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

However you may think the fact remains that a good driver without abs will stop quicker than a poor one with abs will do, which is the escence of the debate???


ABS was designed to enable "average" drivers, and I'm being generous, to stop "adequately"

Bet they won't.
ABS, EPS, TC, active suspension, all good.
Much better than a set of cart springs.
Not all progress has to be bad.

cyclonebri1

QUOTE=mikey72;39719742]Bet they won't.
ABS, EPS, TC, active suspension, all good.
Much better than a set of cart springs.
Not all progress has to be bad.[/QUOTE]


But you still can't take the driver out of the equation, and given all the former, still is the lyntchpin, agrree??>????'

'scuse spellng, [

skiddlydiddly

Tom- you don't really go down 2 mile hills in neutral on ice do you?You are not in full control of your car and risk boiling the brake fluid.If you are constantly on the brakes it doesn't give them time to cool down, even in cold weather.
I'm not really sure what kind of skid control training would advocate you being in neutral, surely better to be in gear and put the clutch in.It achieves the same thing and you are still in control.

alastairq

not forgetting..to raise your engine revs to a level you think will match the speed and gear you're in,before letting the clutch pedal up.

Otherwise..if you simply come off the clutch pedal, you may induce a new skid...

Of course, the very best form of skid control is...to not get into one in the first instance.

But hey, nobody's perfect, eh?

expertlinguist

Poor driving conditions and poor drivers in those conditions make a recipe for disaster...:eek:

However......with the end of World Wars someone better come up with a better solution on how to keep the population down...;)

I do not believe in the existence of dangerous roads killing good drivers....I still need to see a road chase after me with a chainsaw.....I do believe in dangerous drivers killing themselves on good roads!:A