County Court Claim Form and Landlord Tax

HotTrot

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HotTrot

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theartfullodger

The landlord is obviously a crook & not to be trusted - in my opinion...

You will find that if you do not pay HMRC what they are entitled to, HMRC may well take legal action against you: In your shoes I'd pay HMRC first.

You need legal advice. 'phone Shelter, 0808 800 4444 but expect a wait as they are an overloaded charity...

Best regards


Artful (Landlord...)

G_M

HotTrot wrote: »

Thanks. I wonder if anybody could advise on that difference between the rent and the tax.

Do I pay it to the landlord as soon as I know what it is? Or, now that he has started court proceedings, do I have to wait until the court passes judgment?

I don't want to withhold it, but I am just not sure what impact this has on whether I am contesting the whole amount, or part of the amount, or making an admission.

Would I likely have to pay more fees (including the LL's legal fees) simply because I end up being liable for part of the rent?

If I paid him the difference prior to any hearing, and then the court found that I was in the right to withhold the rest, could I still have a judgment against me for the fact that the "difference" was temporarily outstanding?

If it were me I would be talking to the HMRC. Ask them what to withold from the rent. Ask them to put it in writing for the court.

Then send the balance to the LL with a covering letter and copy of whatever you get from HMRC.

Your defence to the court is that you have paid the rent due, less the tax element that you are obliged by law to withold.

I would expect the court to
a) accept this and find in your favour
b) award you your costs (but not legal costs as it is a Small Claims Court)

In the unlikely event the court finds against you, the LL can claim his costs (but not legal costs).

In my view the court will be highly critical of a LL who is clearly attempting to circumvent the tax laws!

Now that the landlord has started court proceedings, is there anything to stop him also trying to get the rent out of the deposit lodged with the DPS?

Yes. a) if he applies to get the deposit you will be contacted to give your consent or ask for arbitration. Obviously you will do the latter. The arbitration will go in your favour as
a) the court hearing is pending and
b) the tenancy has not yet ended

clutton_2

Hot Trot - just wait till the court hearing and then the judge will tell you how to proceed... you will not be judged about not paying rent as you dont know how much tax the taxman wants yet....

""is it not the case that as long as I pay that extra within a month, any CCJ would be struck off?""

this is quite right. If the judge orders you to pay something, pay it there and then, take a prepared receipt with you (except for the amount) with the phrase "in full and final settlement of this rental account" on it and get the LL/LA whoever is in court to sign in and job done - no CCJ.

DVardysShadow

HotTrot wrote: »

edit: Agggh! Just realised this a continuation of your earlier thread I hate it when people start new threads on the same topic. Means others don't have the full story (as I didn't, having forgotton what you'd previously posted!)!!!

An even earlier thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2851262

HotTrot, may I add to G_M's comment, it is also a complete pain that you have deleted all your posts on the earlier thread.

Now, to me, this looks like a case where you should ask the court to stay proceedings on the grounds that

• HMRC have asked that tax be paid direct to them and the amount required is not clear,
• the Landlord is not cooperating
• and because you are leaving the property you may be out of pocket in settling the HMRC demand and you may need to make a counterclaim.

G_M

DVardysShadow wrote: »

An even earlier thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2851262

HotTrot, may I add to G_M's comment, it is also a complete pain that you have deleted all your posts on the earlier thread.

???? I'd forgotten that thread! So what's deleting all your posts about then?

HotTrot

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DVardysShadow

I know very little about court, but I will say don't give a partial admission. It is not appropriate.

It sounds correct to me to ask the court to stay proceedings on grounds that money is owed to HMRC and you are waiting for HMRC to advise, not having received notice of an exemption from the Landlord. It also sounds right to offer to pay rent into the court for the benefit of HMRC and the Landlord as ultimately advised by HMRC.

martindow

The document the OP has sent a copy of is the claim form so, providing he makes a response, the next step is not a court hearing. The OP should respond to the claim explaining the situation with HMRC and waiting for them to come up with a tax figure. The paperwork is then looked at (no court hearing at this stage) and the judge decides what the next step should be - possibly a hearing which is likely to be weeks or months in the future.