The so-called 'experts' have no idea, do they?

Pincher

If the experts have no idea, and the house owners are stupid, we need a better option. What if I made the robots look like George Clooney?

MillicentBystander

It would be a start, I suppose. Although I'm sure Stephen Hawking would be easier to pull off (if you pardon the expression).

Cardew

ollski wrote: »

There is indeed due to the fact that they are rarely installed correctly to optimize the system to keep the boiler in condensing mode as much as possible. However nobody seems to be interested in speculating about the efficiency figures given for 30 year old exsisting boilers. There is no way that after 30 years of operation it will be anywhere near as efficent as it was.

Are you sure my analogy is unfair?, yes it does only provide hot water to clean, wash and live in comfort but why is that secondary to a tv, sofa or more modern car?

Fair point on speculation about the efficiency of the old boilers; and I don't know the answer.

However what I do know is I have 2 boilers, a 22 year old ideal and a 18? year old Worcester combi - for which I have the full installation, servicing and operating manuals.

On both boilers there is nothing to adjust in the servicing manual other than the size of the pilot light. Nothing adjustable to affect efficiency. The servicing consists of cleaning and visual inspection.

So my gut feeling is the efficiency is close to that when new.

My first hand knowledge of condensing boilers is nil, but I have read plenty and every plumber I have spoken to comments on their lack of reliability and that if a board is faulty(a frequent occurrence) replacements cost a fortune.

The thorny question of getting new boilers in 'condensing mode as much as possible' is as you say a problem. I am aware that the return temp of the water is critical(well important), but I understand that this is not always easy to achieve if the heating load varies greatly(only what I have read)

P.S.
The comment on your analogy was that the boiler has a single purpose - to heat water; not that it was not important. We are not bothered about looks, comfort, facilities speed, safety, braking etcetc

Pincher

Have a look at this solution:

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/alpha-flowsmart-25-system/

The return pipe comes from above, so goes into the GasSaver, which does the condensation function. So to all intents and purposes, they are making a non-condensing boiler a condensing boiler!

There is no reason why this cannot be done for ANY old boiler! provided you have the space, you can direct your flue gas to pass through the equivalent GasSaver unit, release exactly the same latent heat as with a "modern" condensing boiler.

I think this clearly shows that the condensing technology is not guilty at all, because all it is is a manifold heat exchanger, with nothing to breakdown. The criminals are the installers who cut corners with the external condensate pipe.

We know exactly whose fault it is for the millions of frozen pipes from the commissioning report. In scale it is in the millions, so qualify as a crime against humanity.

He who lives by the gas, dies by the gas.

I therefore propose building gigantic gas chambers,
throw the guilty into them, and fill them with gas.

Secondly, we should modify the rules so that retro-fitting Cardew's old boilers with a GasSaver add-on is legal. We therefore end up with old "reliable" boilers that are efficient as well.

meggsy

Nice try npower, but we'll give this a miss

http://www.theopenpress.com/index.php?a=press&id=93123

Our boiler is an Ideal E type fitted in 1976 and our engineer has
firmly said not to replace it until absolutely necessary

MillicentBystander

It's npower, anyone with at least one functioning brain cell should instinctively know that what they state is 100% BS.

Whatdoiknow

Just came across this thread as the wife was suggesting it may be time for a new boiler as ours stopped working a couple of days ago and wouldn't restart. However after a BG engineer came for it's annual service and sort out the problem, it appeared to be a bit of rust had dropped onto the pilot.

So I have been looking at condensing boilers and it would appear that in 2005 that man of the people and socialist Lord Prescott deemed that it should be law that any new boiler should be a condensing boiler. So after a bit of reading it seems to suggest that condensing boilers may not be as efficient as made out, that they may not be that reliable and the lifespan may be quite short compared to the one we have that is at least 30 years old. Also that apparently returning water from the radiators has to be less than 55 degrees and this is probably not likely to be the case unless you go into the expense of having larger radiators fitted.

Then there is the problem of literally tens of thousands of condensing boilers breaking down in that bit of snow we had last year when the outlet pipe froze up. Also that the water that escapes through the pipe is slightly toxic ( I wish someone had mentioned this when the one at work overflowed into the office) and damaging to the insides of the boiler although the BG engineer suggested that BG has spent millions to ensure that their boilers do not suffer these problems, (hold on a sec. as I am watching a flock of pigs flying by in a diamond formation, very nice)

So to summarize, I get the feeling I should hang on to the old boiler as a suggested replacement cost of upwards of £3000 would take about 15 years to recoup.

MillicentBystander

YES! Another convert to rational thinking and ignoring the absolute BS of supposed 'experts'. Blimey, if even a BG engineer hasn't condemned your boiler, it must be fit for another 20 years or so.

uptomyeyeballs

Witness post #9 on this thread

"Personally I would forget the gas fire and replace the boiler ......."

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3442913

Whatdoiknow

Of course when I was suggesting whether I should replace the old boiler I was of course referring to the wife. So does the same apply to my central heating boiler?:D