Are UK Universities a drag on our economy?

JasX

setmefree2 wrote: »

If Unis need that sort of money do you think they are inefficient?

Oxford isn't.... nor Cambridge.... nor Imperial.... nor about 20-30 other 'good quality' universities with specialist research/interest areas that are well regarded in their field.

What is a significant waste is the 100 other alleged 'universities' that needed to be hurriedly put together so a full 50% of students can 'attend' university and bum around for 3 years at their own expense studying David Beckham or a low quality English/art/geography degree.

It's certainly one way to hide unemployment statistics for 3-4 years, at 'students' own considerable expense, while wasting 3 years of their lives they could have spent far more productively (eg apprenticeship, starting a career etc etc...perhaps to return to study later in their lives when they have more of an idea what they want to do and why they want to do it).

jennikitten

JasX wrote: »

Oxford isn't.... nor Cambridge.... nor Imperial.... nor about 20-30 other 'good quality' universities with specialist research/interest areas that are well regarded in their field.

What is a significant waste is the 100 other alleged 'universities' that needed to be hurriedly put together so a full 50% of students can 'attend' university and bum around for 3 years at their own expense studying David Beckham or a low quality English/art/geography degree.

The problem is is that all the 'traditional', well-regarded unis often have very archaic structures and topics for many of their degrees. For example, you can do straight Computer Science - and that's the only IT option. It's not a 'one size fits all' solution, it's very limiting and doesn't offer the skills needed for anything except programming. Whereas poly courses have adapted much better to the modern world - for example I could study something more specifically related to Web Design or Ecommerce, which is more desirable to a wider range of companies.

olly300

jennikitten wrote: »

The problem is is that all the 'traditional', well-regarded unis often have very archaic structures and topics for many of their degrees. For example, you can do straight Computer Science - and that's the only IT option. It's not a 'one size fits all' solution, it's very limiting and doesn't offer the skills needed for anything except programming. Whereas poly courses have adapted much better to the modern world - for example I could study something more specifically related to Web Design or Ecommerce, which is more desirable to a wider range of companies.

There are universities - normally those that were founded in the 1950s and 1960s that were never polys - who are very good at providing technical, engineering and scientific subjects that industry requires. They also have links to industry and employers.

Unfortunately many UK children don't want to do these subjects because they are hard. (It also doesn't help that many children have bad or very bad Maths and Science teaching through out their schooling.) So to cater for what the UK children want to do they provide degrees in Arts and Social Science subjects.

In fact anyone who does Science A levels and doesn't get the grades for highly over subscribed courses like Medicine has always been able to find another Science/Technology/Engineering degree course they can get on to easily for over 30 years.

You cannot blame universities for catering for what students want to do.

The blame lies firmly with the UK adult population in general and particularly politicians and the media for not encouraging children to have an interest in these subjects and ensuring they are taught Maths properly (i.e. so they can understand what they are doing and the concepts behind it) from the start of their schooling.

WhiteHorse

JP78 wrote: »

This gap was mostly filled by the £18-£20K being charged to foreign students ...

This of course returns to an old can of worms - universities actively discriminating against home students.

vivatifosi

It was interesting to see Pearson's plans to enter the sector as they published about half of the textbooks I used at Uni, most of which were excellent. Thanks for the link smf. If a quality Uni education can be delivered to new models, then these should be explored, particularly if they are cost effective and offer savings to students.

dopester

No; not real value, with some exceptions for some degrees.

Will Hunting (Matt Damon): You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.

Yet the other guy's reply is true also, without the final degree from a mainstream recognised uni over no degree.

Harvard snob: Yeah, but I will have a degree, and you’ll be serving my kids fries at a drive-thru on our way to a skiing trip.

Although to employers, it all matters which uni, grades, degree showing you have proven abilities to study and get certain results, on top of many other things about your own self as a candidate for a job.

WhiteHorse

Hank_Rearden wrote: »

Indeed most lecturers see students as a necessary evil that they have to put up with in order to get on with research.

Unfortunately, many (but obviously, not all), university lecturers are even worse deadbeats than the students.

jennikitten

olly300 wrote: »

There are universities - normally those that were founded in the 1950s and 1960s that were never polys - who are very good at providing technical, engineering and scientific subjects that industry requires. They also have links to industry and employers.

Unfortunately many UK children don't want to do these subjects because they are hard. (It also doesn't help that many children have bad or very bad Maths and Science teaching through out their schooling.) So to cater for what the UK children want to do they provide degrees in Arts and Social Science subjects.

I don't even know where to begin with this. I don't agree with any of your points. I didn't find maths or science hard, but that doesn't mean I wanted to do them at university.

I don't really understand how that relates to my point either as I used the example of a straight Computer Science degree from a traditional uni being less useful to employers in the real world than a more modern, specific degree from a new uni. I didn't mention anything about arts vs. science. [/QUOTE]

olly300 wrote: »

In fact anyone who does Science A levels and doesn't get the grades for highly over subscribed courses like Medicine has always been able to find another Science/Technology/Engineering degree course they can get on to easily for over 30 years.

Again, I don't see how this is related to what I said at all.

olly300 wrote: »

You cannot blame universities for catering for what students want to do.

But that's just it - my whole point is that they aren't. There's only 1 course in the UK that offers what I want to do, and that's a postgrad course. Despite the fact that it's an area that's one of the fastest growing industries and they've had 20 years to get it sorted.

olly300 wrote: »

The blame lies firmly with the UK adult population in general and particularly politicians and the media for not encouraging children to have an interest in these subjects and ensuring they are taught Maths properly (i.e. so they can understand what they are doing and the concepts behind it) from the start of their schooling.

Again, this has no relevancy to what I said. But I don't believe that bias should be shown to any one particular subject. I met plenty of people who did science and maths at uni (I did English), and I can't name a single one who enjoys their job more than me or who is currently better paid (with the exception of one girl who did Economics, and her success is less to do with her degree and more the fact that she's applied for literally thousands of jobs and has a ton of good work experience).

misskool

WhiteHorse wrote: »

This of course returns to an old can of worms - universities actively discriminating against home students.

No discrimination for home students at all. The govt caps places they will subsidize and fines any university that registers more than their quota.

gauly

WhiteHorse wrote: »

This of course returns to an old can of worms - universities actively discriminating against home students.

Foreign students subsidise the home students - isn't that a good thing? The government decides how many British students are to be on each course not the university.