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Are UK Universities a drag on our economy?

setmefree2
Posts: 9,072 Forumite

I can't understand why any intistution needs £9k per student to deliver a course. Given that the minimum the government is giving is 20% plus a minimum of £6k per student (on a course of 60 students that's £360,000), then it should be easy to deliver a course for that amount surely.
At £9k for 60 students that's £540,000 - over 3 years that's £1,620,000 plus at least a further 20%. All that to educate 60 people!!
If Unis need that sort of money do you think they are inefficient?
At £9k for 60 students that's £540,000 - over 3 years that's £1,620,000 plus at least a further 20%. All that to educate 60 people!!
If Unis need that sort of money do you think they are inefficient?
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It is an extortionate amount of money.
I am sure it can be done very well for 2k or 3kNot Again0 -
I don't believe they 'need' the money as such. They are run as businesses, and in my experience often make a profit. The university I went to makes massive investments in the arms trade, which is a multi-million pound money-spinner for them.
Don't forget that universities do more than just teach as well. There are people finding cures for diseases, making our lives more efficient and developing new technologies, amongst plenty of other valuable things. The students (especially at undergrad level) are often seen as a waste of decent research time!
They create a lot of money for the economy as well, in terms of creating local jobs, using local services, employing contractors, creating areas of more stable income through students being less affected by the recession as a whole, attracting international students etc etc.0 -
jennikitten wrote: »I don't believe they 'need' the money as such. They are run as businesses, and in my experience often make a profit. The university I went to makes massive investments in the arms trade, which is a multi-million pound money-spinner for them.
Don't forget that universities do more than just teach as well. There are people finding cures for diseases, making our lives more efficient and developing new technologies, amongst plenty of other valuable things. The students (especially at undergrad level) are often seen as a waste of decent research time!
They create a lot of money for the economy as well, in terms of creating local jobs, using local services, employing contractors, creating areas of more stable income through students being less affected by the recession as a whole, attracting international students etc etc.
But I though the whole point of charging students was that they alone benefited and therefore should pay for themselves. Why should my kids have to pay for research that benefits everyone?0 -
Indeed most lecturers see students as a necessary evil that they have to put up with in order to get on with research.
There's an interesting comparison with the states where students (who to be fair pay more still) are seen as the cash-cow for the institutions and so are looked after far better.
Higher education and research is riddled with market failure - some of it can be solved, but not all.0 -
setmefree2 wrote: »But I though the whole point of charging students was that they alone benefited and therefore should pay for themselves. Why should my kids have to pay for research that benefits everyone?
Why should I have to pay insurance even though I've never claimed it? Why should I pay council tax contributions to schools I don't use, recycling schemes that don't exist in my area and roads I don't drive on?0 -
jennikitten wrote: »Why should I have to pay insurance even though I've never claimed it? Why should I pay council tax contributions to schools I don't use, recycling schemes that don't exist in my area and roads I don't drive on?
All trueSeems a terrible burden to place on young people though:(
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As a researcher at a university I can assure you that none of the tuition fees go towards my work! Research work is separately funded through the research councils, charities or industry. In science it's an expensive business due to the equipment and materials required, I'm employed on a research grant with four other staff and our 5 year budget is in the region of £3.5 million. The research councils annual budget is something like £3 billion.
For teaching a science course can easily exceed the figures quoted. When I did my chemistry degree in the late 90s an undergrad course was budgeted at ~£14k per annum. The bulk of this cost was due to the lab costs. My institution was losing around £6k for every Home/EU student on the course. This gap was mostly filled by the £18-£20K being charged to foreign students (the fact that the government are capping the numbers of these students adds further strain).
I can imagine for arts or social science subjects £9k per year will easily cover the cost per student, this is probably part of the logic of dropping all government funding for such courses and only funding science and engineering. I suspect rightly or wrongly, some unis will use the excess from this to fund the deficit from more expensive courses.0 -
setmefree2 wrote: »All true
Seems a terrible burden to place on young people though:(
If it's any help (& I apologise if you've read this before because I've posted it before), but I don't see it as a burden. I don't think 'Oh I've got £12k hanging round my neck' because I don't feel like I have. I graduated in 2008, and my student loan contribution is just something else on my payslip like tax and national insurance. It's money I've never had, so I don't miss it. It's not very much of my salary (about 2% at the moment), and so it's only the equivalent of having a Sky package or a smartphone contract to pay each month. And it gets cancelled if I don't pay it off or my salary is too low.0 -
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I won't name the University, but the one I went to and later worked for had an Aeron Chair at every single desk in their new building. I would estimate they had about 200 of them, at £550 a pop this seems like a lot of wasted money. Maybe thats what they need the 9k for0
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