Are UK Universities a drag on our economy?

misskool

setmefree2 wrote: »

But I though the whole point of charging students was that they alone benefited and therefore should pay for themselves. Why should my kids have to pay for research that benefits everyone?

They don't.

Consider where the lectures are held, the fees are paying for the upkeep, maintenance, heating and lighting.
The library needs to subscribe to journals (each journal subscription costs thousands of pounds) and buy books to keep up to date.
There are often free computers around campus that students can use (to help those that can't afford their own laptops).
There is now the wireless that all students 'need'.
Students also need to pay for all the administration staff that deal with their application, then their registration and those that compile their marks and give them their results.

Capital expenditure and human resources cost a lot more. But of course, you should just pay the staff less so your fees will cost less?

Lecturers do not get paid to lecture, they get paid to do research. I can't mention where (and it will be out later) but if you don't return funds to the institution even though you are loved by the students, the university doesn't care.

If you want proper education that you pay money for (see Ivy League universities in the US where money is no object) then that's how much it costs.

setmefree2

£9k for 60 students is £540,000 plus (a minimum maybe more) 20% is £648,000. Times 3 years is £1,944,000. To educuate just 60 people. Ridiculous surely !!!!

misskool

setmefree2 wrote: »

£9k for 60 students is £540,000 plus (a minimum maybe more) 20% is £648,000. Times 3 years is £1,944,000. To educuate just 60 people. Ridiculous surely !!!!

Try the other way.

Heating for lecture hall to seat 100 people, let's say £10k pa.
Maintenance (say new microphone, new computer, new projector) = £3k pa.
Tutorial rooms for each time they have work to discuss = £10k
Minimum 3 administrative staff for 60 students, one to organise students, one to sort out lectures, one to compile the marks and get the lecturers to return stuff on time (that's just the basic arts course, without lab technicians, equipment etc), £24k x 3 = 96k
Journal subscription (let's say 4 journals to read by each student, a university typically have hundreds, good ones have over a thousand based on subject, but let's be subject specific) £10k
Computers and free printing (say about 100 sheets/term, 300 sheets/student/year) with a cheapie Dell. £1.5k x 60 = 80k

And so forth and so forth. Student union rates are subsidised by the university, catering at a university is often subsidised. and it's not likely that all 60 students will pay full fees as some will be subsidised based on (I hope!!) merit and need.

setmefree2

Maybe what we need is Stelios of Universities - "EasyUni"

setmefree2

I'm not going to argue with you Misskool 'cos you are the board mod.... but your figures are just a tad unconvincing Just a tad mind.....;)

Really2

setmefree2 wrote: »

Maybe what we need is Stelios of Universities - "EasyUni"

Or Jacqueline Gold "Uni-sex"
Simon Cowell can sort the Dropouts out at "X-Uni"
and Harry Hill will help convict all the Rioters in "Uni been framed"
Green Giant will help sort out all the people who study Greek Mythology in "Uni-Corn"
The green student traveling incentive "Uni-Cycle"

Ill get me coat.

shortchanged_2

Well it's obvious what the government are trying to do and it's what the tories want as usual. Privatisation of University Education. They are probably hoping by setting these high fees that private companies will step in and offer cheaper courses to students thereby creating 'real' competition within the University sector.

setmefree2

MissKool do you really, really, really think it should cost £2 million pounds to educate 60 people?

Really2

shortchanged wrote: »

Well it's obvious what the government are trying to do and it's what the tories want as usual. Privatisation of University Education. They are probably hoping by setting these high fees that private companies will step in and offer cheaper courses to students thereby creating 'real' competition within the University sector.

I think the long term plan is to make is to make it more like open university (not a residential education like it is in many cases).
There is no reason why lectures could not be webinars any more, etc. Students could have access to a better standard of lectures at a far lower cost.

pinkteapot

Suggest you read the Report and Accounts of some universities to see where their money goes. This was the first one that Google threw up:
http://www.herts.ac.uk/about-us/publications/home.cfm

I've said it before on here and I'll say it again. My degree was worth far, far more than the £1k per year tuition I paid (in terms of both the experience of doing it and what I earn now). It was a good degree from a good university. There are plenty of courses out there that aren't worth the maximum £9k tuition and hopefully won't charge it (or if they do they won't survive). I hope to see university become more of a market, with a price difference for what is clearly a product where quality varies.

Most universities work to top up their own incomes, through alumni fund-raising and selling accommodation/conference facilities during uni holidays. They're certainly not taking all their costs from students.